1 00:02:44,150 --> 00:02:41,990 i know it's beautiful this is 2 00:02:46,550 --> 00:02:44,160 spectacular we even thought we'd be 3 00:02:48,550 --> 00:02:46,560 alive at this point well i mean 4 00:02:49,589 --> 00:02:48,560 the fact that these go right up like 5 00:02:51,430 --> 00:02:49,599 that 6 00:02:53,509 --> 00:02:51,440 and then down you know this is 7 00:03:02,229 --> 00:02:53,519 astonishing 8 00:03:08,550 --> 00:03:04,149 i love checking not your two thousand 9 00:05:27,270 --> 00:03:13,430 i know it's beautiful it's spectacular 10 00:05:30,550 --> 00:05:28,710 good afternoon welcome to nasa 11 00:05:32,629 --> 00:05:30,560 headquarters and today space science 12 00:05:34,710 --> 00:05:32,639 update we're very pleased 13 00:05:36,790 --> 00:05:34,720 today to have a panel of astronomers 14 00:05:38,469 --> 00:05:36,800 here to make a significant announcement 15 00:05:41,270 --> 00:05:38,479 on research funded by nasa and the 16 00:05:43,350 --> 00:05:41,280 national science foundation and uh here 17 00:05:45,110 --> 00:05:43,360 to tell us about that 18 00:05:47,189 --> 00:05:45,120 and to introduce our panel to tell us 19 00:05:49,510 --> 00:05:47,199 about that it's dr ann kenney who's the 20 00:05:53,670 --> 00:05:49,520 director of nasa's origin programs here 21 00:05:56,870 --> 00:05:53,680 at nasa headquarters and 22 00:05:58,710 --> 00:05:56,880 uh we have some very exciting science to 23 00:06:02,790 --> 00:05:58,720 talk about today 24 00:06:05,110 --> 00:06:02,800 which has to do with uh planet searches 25 00:06:07,909 --> 00:06:05,120 when you look up in the night sky 26 00:06:10,550 --> 00:06:07,919 now you know with a certainty that there 27 00:06:13,029 --> 00:06:10,560 are planets around some of the stars in 28 00:06:16,070 --> 00:06:13,039 that sky but this has only been the case 29 00:06:18,309 --> 00:06:16,080 since 1994 before then 30 00:06:19,749 --> 00:06:18,319 it was simply not known people thought 31 00:06:22,870 --> 00:06:19,759 that there were probably planets out 32 00:06:25,909 --> 00:06:22,880 there but it wasn't known since 1994 33 00:06:28,710 --> 00:06:25,919 we've discovered about 30 planets i use 34 00:06:30,790 --> 00:06:28,720 a wee very loosely here 35 00:06:32,950 --> 00:06:30,800 since this was not my personal research 36 00:06:34,710 --> 00:06:32,960 but we've discovered about 30 planets of 37 00:06:36,950 --> 00:06:34,720 those 20 of those planets were 38 00:06:39,110 --> 00:06:36,960 discovered by the team that is here to 39 00:06:40,710 --> 00:06:39,120 talk with us today 40 00:06:44,070 --> 00:06:40,720 i would just like to say something about 41 00:06:47,029 --> 00:06:44,080 those planets to put this in perspective 42 00:06:51,350 --> 00:06:47,039 those 30 planets have all been 43 00:06:54,550 --> 00:06:51,360 jupiter mass or larger that means 300 44 00:06:55,430 --> 00:06:54,560 earth mass sized planets 45 00:06:57,350 --> 00:06:55,440 and 46 00:06:59,189 --> 00:06:57,360 the the planets we're going to talk 47 00:07:01,749 --> 00:06:59,199 about today have more to do with 48 00:07:05,670 --> 00:07:01,759 saturn-sized planets which is 49 00:07:07,110 --> 00:07:05,680 100 earth mass so very different order 50 00:07:09,189 --> 00:07:07,120 of magnitude 51 00:07:12,550 --> 00:07:09,199 so as i said 52 00:07:13,990 --> 00:07:12,560 of the of the approximately 30 planets 53 00:07:16,870 --> 00:07:14,000 that we know of 20 of them were 54 00:07:18,790 --> 00:07:16,880 discovered by this team and 55 00:07:20,790 --> 00:07:18,800 this is this is a group that has been 56 00:07:23,510 --> 00:07:20,800 working on this field for approximately 57 00:07:25,909 --> 00:07:23,520 15 years this is very hard work it's 58 00:07:28,309 --> 00:07:25,919 very exacting work 59 00:07:30,629 --> 00:07:28,319 and uh you know i'm really i'm really 60 00:07:33,830 --> 00:07:30,639 pleased to have this group to talk to us 61 00:07:36,710 --> 00:07:33,840 today the the scientists as well as our 62 00:07:39,350 --> 00:07:36,720 uh science experts who will comment on 63 00:07:41,510 --> 00:07:39,360 it so let me let me introduce today's 64 00:07:43,110 --> 00:07:41,520 panel um the 65 00:07:45,990 --> 00:07:43,120 jeff marcy and paul butler are people 66 00:07:48,150 --> 00:07:46,000 that i've known for 15 years myself and 67 00:07:50,150 --> 00:07:48,160 that that makes it a double pleasure 68 00:07:52,550 --> 00:07:50,160 jeff marcy is from university of 69 00:07:55,589 --> 00:07:52,560 california in berkeley 70 00:07:59,110 --> 00:07:55,599 paul butler is from carnegie institution 71 00:08:00,629 --> 00:07:59,120 at washington dc here in town 72 00:08:03,510 --> 00:08:00,639 alan boss 73 00:08:04,550 --> 00:08:03,520 is also from the carnegie institution of 74 00:08:07,589 --> 00:08:04,560 d.c 75 00:08:11,029 --> 00:08:07,599 and heidi hamill from the space science 76 00:08:12,469 --> 00:08:11,039 institute in boulder colorado so jeff 77 00:08:16,070 --> 00:08:12,479 would you like to start out and tell us 78 00:08:21,430 --> 00:08:19,029 using the world's largest telescope the 79 00:08:23,670 --> 00:08:21,440 keck in hawaii 80 00:08:25,670 --> 00:08:23,680 and using some new improvements to our 81 00:08:28,670 --> 00:08:25,680 search technique 82 00:08:32,070 --> 00:08:28,680 we have discovered the first 83 00:08:34,389 --> 00:08:32,080 saturn-sized planets ever found outside 84 00:08:36,870 --> 00:08:34,399 our solar system 85 00:08:38,389 --> 00:08:36,880 in fact we found two saturn's and i'll 86 00:08:39,589 --> 00:08:38,399 be showing you the data for these in 87 00:08:41,750 --> 00:08:39,599 just a moment 88 00:08:43,909 --> 00:08:41,760 one of the saturn's orbits the star 89 00:08:45,829 --> 00:08:43,919 called 79 seti 90 00:08:46,630 --> 00:08:45,839 in the southern hemisphere 91 00:08:51,750 --> 00:08:46,640 and 92 00:08:56,710 --> 00:08:54,790 both of these stars being old sun-like 93 00:08:59,350 --> 00:08:56,720 stars 94 00:09:02,630 --> 00:08:59,360 an artist's rendering is shown in the 95 00:09:05,509 --> 00:09:02,640 animation if i could have it please 96 00:09:08,710 --> 00:09:05,519 this shows a star field and then the 97 00:09:12,470 --> 00:09:08,720 star itself 79 centi and what the 98 00:09:14,710 --> 00:09:12,480 saturn-sized planet may well look like 99 00:09:16,790 --> 00:09:14,720 the artist's rendering shows the size 100 00:09:17,670 --> 00:09:16,800 and orbit of the planet that we actually 101 00:09:21,110 --> 00:09:17,680 measure 102 00:09:23,509 --> 00:09:21,120 and it also shows rings and moons drawn 103 00:09:27,509 --> 00:09:23,519 speculatively to mimic 104 00:09:29,990 --> 00:09:27,519 our own saturn in our solar system 105 00:09:32,230 --> 00:09:30,000 our search technique is is well known to 106 00:09:35,590 --> 00:09:32,240 many people now it involves monitoring 107 00:09:38,870 --> 00:09:35,600 the wobble of these host stars 108 00:09:41,190 --> 00:09:38,880 shown in the next animation 109 00:09:43,910 --> 00:09:41,200 what we detect of course is the wobble 110 00:09:47,190 --> 00:09:43,920 of the star the motion of the star as it 111 00:09:50,389 --> 00:09:47,200 responds to the gravitational pull on 112 00:09:52,310 --> 00:09:50,399 the star exerted by the planet 113 00:09:53,590 --> 00:09:52,320 this wobbling motion of the star tells 114 00:09:55,590 --> 00:09:53,600 us a number of 115 00:09:58,630 --> 00:09:55,600 facts about the planet it tells us the 116 00:10:00,790 --> 00:09:58,640 minimum mass of the planet and it tells 117 00:10:05,110 --> 00:10:00,800 us the orbital size and the orbital 118 00:10:06,069 --> 00:10:05,120 shape within which the planet resides 119 00:10:08,870 --> 00:10:06,079 let me 120 00:10:11,269 --> 00:10:08,880 turn now to the data itself what's uh 121 00:10:14,550 --> 00:10:11,279 really precious to us 122 00:10:17,430 --> 00:10:14,560 the data are shown in the next graphic 123 00:10:19,269 --> 00:10:17,440 the data reveal these saturns and these 124 00:10:20,630 --> 00:10:19,279 that you see here on this graphic are 125 00:10:23,509 --> 00:10:20,640 the data 126 00:10:25,509 --> 00:10:23,519 for the star 79 seti 127 00:10:28,150 --> 00:10:25,519 what you see are the 128 00:10:31,110 --> 00:10:28,160 velocity measurements the dots 129 00:10:33,910 --> 00:10:31,120 versus time on the horizontal axis 130 00:10:35,910 --> 00:10:33,920 taken during the last two years at the 131 00:10:37,829 --> 00:10:35,920 keck telescope you can see that the 132 00:10:41,430 --> 00:10:37,839 velocity of the star 133 00:10:45,350 --> 00:10:41,440 varies back and forth like a buoy 134 00:10:47,509 --> 00:10:45,360 on water waves indicating that 79 seti 135 00:10:50,150 --> 00:10:47,519 indeed wobbles back and forth it has a 136 00:10:52,150 --> 00:10:50,160 saturn mass planet one can use newton's 137 00:10:54,389 --> 00:10:52,160 laws of physics to deduce the mass and 138 00:10:57,670 --> 00:10:54,399 orbit of the planet and that the planet 139 00:11:00,949 --> 00:10:57,680 goes around the star 79 centi uh in 140 00:11:02,949 --> 00:11:00,959 about 75 days 141 00:11:05,750 --> 00:11:02,959 the planet's orbit 142 00:11:07,430 --> 00:11:05,760 around 79 seti is similar in shape and 143 00:11:10,550 --> 00:11:07,440 size to 144 00:11:13,509 --> 00:11:10,560 mercury's orbit around the sun 145 00:11:15,670 --> 00:11:13,519 same distance and even more eccentric 146 00:11:17,269 --> 00:11:15,680 for this this planet a more elongated 147 00:11:19,509 --> 00:11:17,279 orbit 148 00:11:22,230 --> 00:11:19,519 and then finally the last graphic i'd 149 00:11:25,150 --> 00:11:22,240 like to show uh indicates the data we've 150 00:11:26,710 --> 00:11:25,160 acquired for the other star hd 151 00:11:29,269 --> 00:11:26,720 46375 152 00:11:31,910 --> 00:11:29,279 here you're only seeing three days of 153 00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:31,920 data compressed down to three days and 154 00:11:37,590 --> 00:11:34,160 you can see that the planet orbits the 155 00:11:40,310 --> 00:11:37,600 star in only three days one full wobble 156 00:11:43,269 --> 00:11:40,320 in three days and so this planet is very 157 00:11:45,509 --> 00:11:43,279 close to its host star the planet indeed 158 00:11:48,470 --> 00:11:45,519 is about 25 times 159 00:11:50,230 --> 00:11:48,480 closer to its host star than our earth 160 00:11:53,190 --> 00:11:50,240 is to the sun 161 00:11:54,949 --> 00:11:53,200 so it's scorchingly hot on this planet 162 00:11:57,910 --> 00:11:54,959 we estimate the temperature on the 163 00:12:00,150 --> 00:11:57,920 planet to be something like 2000 degrees 164 00:12:02,629 --> 00:12:00,160 fahrenheit due to the proximity of the 165 00:12:05,190 --> 00:12:02,639 planet to the star 166 00:12:06,790 --> 00:12:05,200 and i think now i'd like to turn to paul 167 00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:06,800 butler who can tell us a little more 168 00:12:11,829 --> 00:12:10,240 about the interpretations of these data 169 00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:11,839 thanks jeff 170 00:12:15,350 --> 00:12:13,680 i'm really excited about these 171 00:12:17,430 --> 00:12:15,360 discoveries because they mark two 172 00:12:20,069 --> 00:12:17,440 important mileposts uh in our 173 00:12:21,509 --> 00:12:20,079 exploration of planetary systems uh 174 00:12:22,470 --> 00:12:21,519 because of the way that these planets 175 00:12:24,550 --> 00:12:22,480 are different from the ones that have 176 00:12:26,230 --> 00:12:24,560 been found up until now 177 00:12:27,750 --> 00:12:26,240 but first i'll talk about how these 178 00:12:29,430 --> 00:12:27,760 planets are similar to what have been 179 00:12:31,990 --> 00:12:29,440 found up until now and how they relate 180 00:12:33,670 --> 00:12:32,000 to the planets that have been found 181 00:12:35,509 --> 00:12:33,680 so far all of the planets that have been 182 00:12:38,389 --> 00:12:35,519 found fall in one of two classes they're 183 00:12:40,949 --> 00:12:38,399 either these 51 peg-like orbits four-day 184 00:12:42,710 --> 00:12:40,959 orbits where the planet is roasting hot 185 00:12:44,870 --> 00:12:42,720 or they're more distant orbits but 186 00:12:46,870 --> 00:12:44,880 eccentric not circular orbits like we 187 00:12:49,030 --> 00:12:46,880 find in our own solar system 188 00:12:52,550 --> 00:12:49,040 and these two planets actually fall one 189 00:12:54,870 --> 00:12:52,560 in each class hd 46375 is one of these 190 00:12:58,069 --> 00:12:54,880 51 peg roasting planets 191 00:12:59,509 --> 00:12:58,079 and 79 ceti is eccentric so they've 192 00:13:02,069 --> 00:12:59,519 fallen in the two classes that have been 193 00:13:03,910 --> 00:13:02,079 found up until now 194 00:13:05,829 --> 00:13:03,920 these classes are very different from 195 00:13:08,310 --> 00:13:05,839 solar system planets solar system 196 00:13:11,110 --> 00:13:08,320 planets uh are in beautifully nested 197 00:13:12,949 --> 00:13:11,120 concentric circular orbits and so this 198 00:13:15,030 --> 00:13:12,959 has caused speculation that the planets 199 00:13:17,750 --> 00:13:15,040 that have been found to date are somehow 200 00:13:19,829 --> 00:13:17,760 different than solar system planets 201 00:13:22,150 --> 00:13:19,839 the way we can address this issue is to 202 00:13:24,310 --> 00:13:22,160 look at the mass distribution so if i 203 00:13:26,310 --> 00:13:24,320 can have the mass distribution graphic 204 00:13:28,069 --> 00:13:26,320 what this shows is the number of planets 205 00:13:30,389 --> 00:13:28,079 that have been detected 206 00:13:32,470 --> 00:13:30,399 versus how much mass each planet has so 207 00:13:34,790 --> 00:13:32,480 you see the the scale goes from about 0 208 00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:34,800 to about 15 jupiter mouses 209 00:13:39,030 --> 00:13:36,959 and the thing that initially was quite 210 00:13:40,629 --> 00:13:39,040 startling to us is that we're finding 211 00:13:42,629 --> 00:13:40,639 almost nothing that's this bigger than 212 00:13:44,550 --> 00:13:42,639 about 10 jupiter masses or so such 213 00:13:47,110 --> 00:13:44,560 planets are or such objects would be 214 00:13:49,110 --> 00:13:47,120 very easy to find by virtue of their 215 00:13:51,110 --> 00:13:49,120 huge gravitational field you get 216 00:13:53,269 --> 00:13:51,120 enormous wobbles and yet we're finding 217 00:13:55,350 --> 00:13:53,279 none uh instead what we're finding is 218 00:13:58,069 --> 00:13:55,360 just a trickle of planets uh sort of 219 00:14:00,150 --> 00:13:58,079 between five and ten jupiter masses and 220 00:14:01,829 --> 00:14:00,160 then as we move to smaller mass regimes 221 00:14:03,750 --> 00:14:01,839 one and two jupiter mouses we're finding 222 00:14:04,870 --> 00:14:03,760 just a torrent of discoveries that are 223 00:14:06,870 --> 00:14:04,880 coming through 224 00:14:08,710 --> 00:14:06,880 now the critical thing here is that 225 00:14:10,470 --> 00:14:08,720 these planets that the smallest end the 226 00:14:12,629 --> 00:14:10,480 one and two jupiter mass planets are the 227 00:14:14,949 --> 00:14:12,639 hardest to detect and the ones that we 228 00:14:16,310 --> 00:14:14,959 are most likely to miss in our surveys 229 00:14:18,550 --> 00:14:16,320 so this suggests that there's going to 230 00:14:20,310 --> 00:14:18,560 be many many many more small planets 231 00:14:21,590 --> 00:14:20,320 than there are large planets and of 232 00:14:23,910 --> 00:14:21,600 course the discoveries that we have 233 00:14:25,750 --> 00:14:23,920 today pushed us to even lower masses for 234 00:14:28,310 --> 00:14:25,760 the first time going under 100 earth 235 00:14:33,189 --> 00:14:30,550 now i'd like to talk about uh 236 00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:33,199 why these two discoveries are so special 237 00:14:36,629 --> 00:14:35,760 why they mark two important mild posts 238 00:14:38,710 --> 00:14:36,639 um 239 00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:38,720 first is simply that up until now the 240 00:14:42,230 --> 00:14:40,560 planets as has been stated the planets 241 00:14:45,110 --> 00:14:42,240 have been found are more like jupiter 242 00:14:47,829 --> 00:14:45,120 mass sort of 200 or more earth masses 243 00:14:49,509 --> 00:14:47,839 and uh the one enormous milestone now is 244 00:14:52,150 --> 00:14:49,519 that these things are about 70 to 80 245 00:14:54,710 --> 00:14:52,160 earth masses we've passed 100 earth mass 246 00:14:57,910 --> 00:14:54,720 limit and pushing down even further 247 00:14:59,990 --> 00:14:57,920 um and the second thing is uh this 248 00:15:03,430 --> 00:15:00,000 points out sort of the future so if i 249 00:15:05,350 --> 00:15:03,440 can have the 79 steady graphic again 250 00:15:07,350 --> 00:15:05,360 up until now we've only been able to 251 00:15:09,110 --> 00:15:07,360 find planets that induce really huge 252 00:15:11,350 --> 00:15:09,120 wobbles in their star wobbles that are 253 00:15:14,310 --> 00:15:11,360 about four times bigger than jupiter 254 00:15:16,230 --> 00:15:14,320 induces in the sun and with 79 seti for 255 00:15:18,230 --> 00:15:16,240 the first time we have a wobble here 256 00:15:20,389 --> 00:15:18,240 which is plus or minus about 11 meters a 257 00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:20,399 second which is actually smaller than 258 00:15:24,310 --> 00:15:23,040 the wobble induced on the sun by jupiter 259 00:15:26,310 --> 00:15:24,320 so for the first time we are now 260 00:15:28,550 --> 00:15:26,320 demonstrating that we can detect solar 261 00:15:30,230 --> 00:15:28,560 system like planets uh a real-live 262 00:15:31,829 --> 00:15:30,240 jupiter-like object and a real-life 263 00:15:34,629 --> 00:15:31,839 jupiter-like orbital distance things 264 00:15:36,710 --> 00:15:34,639 that would remind us of ourselves 265 00:15:38,790 --> 00:15:36,720 this is in fact now the biggest 266 00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:38,800 remaining long-term goal of this program 267 00:15:43,670 --> 00:15:41,040 to maintain this kind of precision for 268 00:15:45,749 --> 00:15:43,680 another decade so that we can answer the 269 00:15:47,110 --> 00:15:45,759 the huge looming question what fraction 270 00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:47,120 of these planetary systems are going to 271 00:15:51,350 --> 00:15:49,440 be like our own uh is our own system 272 00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:51,360 rare or is it common completely open 273 00:15:54,389 --> 00:15:52,800 question that we hope to be able to 274 00:15:56,150 --> 00:15:54,399 provide preliminary answers for within 275 00:15:58,310 --> 00:15:56,160 10 years 276 00:15:59,829 --> 00:15:58,320 that's basically my set of comments i'll 277 00:16:01,509 --> 00:15:59,839 turn it over to ann now 278 00:16:03,910 --> 00:16:01,519 thanks paul and jeff i think this 279 00:16:07,189 --> 00:16:03,920 represents an incredible achievement and 280 00:16:09,990 --> 00:16:07,199 very impressive science 281 00:16:12,870 --> 00:16:10,000 so i'd like to turn it now to uh alan 282 00:16:16,150 --> 00:16:12,880 and heidi and ask for uh comments and 283 00:16:17,990 --> 00:16:16,160 context on these results alan okay 284 00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:18,000 i'd like to comment on the 285 00:16:21,189 --> 00:16:19,440 importance of these discoveries within 286 00:16:22,790 --> 00:16:21,199 the context of what's been discovered so 287 00:16:24,310 --> 00:16:22,800 far as well as what will be discovered 288 00:16:27,030 --> 00:16:24,320 in the next few years so if i could have 289 00:16:29,670 --> 00:16:27,040 the discovery space image please 290 00:16:31,350 --> 00:16:29,680 this uh this plot shows you not only the 291 00:16:33,030 --> 00:16:31,360 masses of the objects which have been 292 00:16:35,350 --> 00:16:33,040 discovered so far but also their 293 00:16:37,030 --> 00:16:35,360 separations from their stars 294 00:16:38,629 --> 00:16:37,040 and you can see that there is at the top 295 00:16:41,030 --> 00:16:38,639 of the of the field there are a few 296 00:16:43,110 --> 00:16:41,040 possible brown dwarf companions to some 297 00:16:44,949 --> 00:16:43,120 of these nearby solar type stars but 298 00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:44,959 they're quite rare and surprisingly rare 299 00:16:48,949 --> 00:16:47,040 and there's a rather large gap between 300 00:16:50,710 --> 00:16:48,959 the least massive brown dwarf star and 301 00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:50,720 what we think is the most massive planet 302 00:16:55,189 --> 00:16:53,360 around at around 10 jupiter masses 303 00:16:56,310 --> 00:16:55,199 then below 10 jupiter masses there's 304 00:16:57,910 --> 00:16:56,320 this 305 00:16:59,509 --> 00:16:57,920 grouping of objects that we believe are 306 00:17:01,430 --> 00:16:59,519 gas giant planets very similar to our 307 00:17:03,590 --> 00:17:01,440 own jupiter and there are roughly 30 or 308 00:17:05,270 --> 00:17:03,600 so those objects now 309 00:17:07,429 --> 00:17:05,280 now what you see is first of all at the 310 00:17:11,189 --> 00:17:07,439 very bottom are the two new discoveries 311 00:17:13,029 --> 00:17:11,199 uh highly in in pink hd 46375 and 79 312 00:17:15,669 --> 00:17:13,039 seti those are the two newly discovered 313 00:17:17,590 --> 00:17:15,679 planets and as paul pointed out they map 314 00:17:19,189 --> 00:17:17,600 out a new area of discovery space 315 00:17:20,630 --> 00:17:19,199 they're pushing down the region where we 316 00:17:21,990 --> 00:17:20,640 can find extrasolar planets to 317 00:17:23,350 --> 00:17:22,000 considerably lower masses than what 318 00:17:24,710 --> 00:17:23,360 we've seen before 319 00:17:26,549 --> 00:17:24,720 the first point i want to make about 320 00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:26,559 this though is what you don't see on 321 00:17:30,630 --> 00:17:29,280 this plot which is that you do not see 322 00:17:32,150 --> 00:17:30,640 another gap 323 00:17:33,750 --> 00:17:32,160 you see there's a gap up at the top of 324 00:17:36,230 --> 00:17:33,760 the plot that helps us separate out 325 00:17:38,150 --> 00:17:36,240 brown dwarf stars from gas giant planets 326 00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:38,160 but there's no such gap evidence in the 327 00:17:42,070 --> 00:17:39,679 distribution of what we believe are 328 00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:42,080 planets implying we really are seeing a 329 00:17:46,549 --> 00:17:44,640 continuous distribution in masses of 330 00:17:48,390 --> 00:17:46,559 objects that are gas giant planets and 331 00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:48,400 going into the range perhaps of ice 332 00:17:52,390 --> 00:17:50,320 giant planets eventually and so what 333 00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:52,400 we're seeing is really just the tip of 334 00:17:56,150 --> 00:17:54,160 an iceberg that there is an 335 00:17:58,230 --> 00:17:56,160 incredible number of other plants we'll 336 00:17:59,909 --> 00:17:58,240 be finding as our search techniques 337 00:18:01,909 --> 00:17:59,919 improve if i could have the graphic 338 00:18:04,390 --> 00:18:01,919 backing i want to make the second point 339 00:18:05,270 --> 00:18:04,400 which is actually mentioned by by paul 340 00:18:06,950 --> 00:18:05,280 again 341 00:18:08,950 --> 00:18:06,960 name you'll notice that 79 seti is 342 00:18:10,150 --> 00:18:08,960 sitting out in a region of parameter 343 00:18:12,710 --> 00:18:10,160 space that is 344 00:18:14,950 --> 00:18:12,720 untouched by previous observations all 345 00:18:17,190 --> 00:18:14,960 the previous observations lie above that 346 00:18:18,789 --> 00:18:17,200 top dashed line called old detection 347 00:18:20,150 --> 00:18:18,799 limit which tells you basically that 348 00:18:21,830 --> 00:18:20,160 with a certain amount of precision of 349 00:18:23,830 --> 00:18:21,840 your radial velocity search you can find 350 00:18:26,549 --> 00:18:23,840 everything above that line 351 00:18:28,549 --> 00:18:26,559 79 city for the first time defines a new 352 00:18:30,630 --> 00:18:28,559 line the line says which says new 353 00:18:33,350 --> 00:18:30,640 detection limit pushes it down into a 354 00:18:35,909 --> 00:18:33,360 regime where we can expect to find 355 00:18:38,070 --> 00:18:35,919 around other stars jupiter 356 00:18:40,150 --> 00:18:38,080 analogs that is truly jupiter mass 357 00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:40,160 objects with 12-year period orbits like 358 00:18:43,110 --> 00:18:42,160 jupiter in our solar system and that 359 00:18:45,430 --> 00:18:43,120 sort of 360 00:18:47,909 --> 00:18:45,440 object is really in many ways the holy 361 00:18:50,549 --> 00:18:47,919 grail of what we're after now because 362 00:18:51,510 --> 00:18:50,559 such an object could actually uh 363 00:18:53,510 --> 00:18:51,520 also 364 00:18:54,870 --> 00:18:53,520 be a signpost for finding an earth-like 365 00:18:56,470 --> 00:18:54,880 planet which is which is really what 366 00:18:58,150 --> 00:18:56,480 we're trying to find and holy grail is 367 00:18:59,750 --> 00:18:58,160 sort of a term that gets used and 368 00:19:01,270 --> 00:18:59,760 overused too much i've tried to think of 369 00:19:02,950 --> 00:19:01,280 another analogy i thought perhaps the 370 00:19:05,110 --> 00:19:02,960 golden fleece but of course that has 371 00:19:07,029 --> 00:19:05,120 some rather unfortunate uh connotations 372 00:19:08,390 --> 00:19:07,039 because of senator william proxmeier but 373 00:19:09,830 --> 00:19:08,400 you get the idea we're looking for 374 00:19:12,470 --> 00:19:09,840 something which is very valuable and 375 00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:12,480 very hard to find and the real goal of 376 00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:14,320 much of this long-term program is to try 377 00:19:19,350 --> 00:19:16,400 to find a habitable earth if we can find 378 00:19:20,710 --> 00:19:19,360 a long period jupiter around a nearby 379 00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:20,720 star then that will tell us that might 380 00:19:24,470 --> 00:19:22,320 be a very good candidate for looking for 381 00:19:25,750 --> 00:19:24,480 another earth and my colleague heidi 382 00:19:27,190 --> 00:19:25,760 will be telling us a bit more about what 383 00:19:28,230 --> 00:19:27,200 we can expect to find in the next few 384 00:19:29,909 --> 00:19:28,240 years 385 00:19:31,830 --> 00:19:29,919 that's right i'd like to actually go 386 00:19:34,070 --> 00:19:31,840 back to that graphic again it's a very 387 00:19:35,350 --> 00:19:34,080 complicated graphic but it has so much 388 00:19:38,230 --> 00:19:35,360 information 389 00:19:40,230 --> 00:19:38,240 it really tells us a very a great deal 390 00:19:41,669 --> 00:19:40,240 about what we're talking about today i 391 00:19:43,990 --> 00:19:41,679 also want to highlight something that's 392 00:19:46,549 --> 00:19:44,000 not on this graphic and that is 393 00:19:48,789 --> 00:19:46,559 other planets in our solar system 394 00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:48,799 to really put this in context for you 395 00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:51,200 you see the two uh points there of the 396 00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:53,280 new star the new planets that have been 397 00:19:57,990 --> 00:19:55,679 found and you see jupiter which lies 398 00:20:01,029 --> 00:19:58,000 within the space that we can detect but 399 00:20:04,149 --> 00:20:01,039 saturn is also not in the realm of 400 00:20:05,990 --> 00:20:04,159 detectability by this technique um with 401 00:20:08,310 --> 00:20:06,000 the kinds of work that this team is 402 00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:08,320 doing they're pushing and pushing and 403 00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:10,559 pushing and they probably will be able 404 00:20:15,110 --> 00:20:12,480 to get to well they have gotten to 405 00:20:16,149 --> 00:20:15,120 saturn masses but they haven't gotten 406 00:20:17,590 --> 00:20:16,159 yet to 407 00:20:19,830 --> 00:20:17,600 saturn 408 00:20:22,549 --> 00:20:19,840 orbits and they'll probably be able to 409 00:20:24,390 --> 00:20:22,559 push down the uranus masses too and i 410 00:20:25,590 --> 00:20:24,400 expected a year or maybe even less than 411 00:20:27,830 --> 00:20:25,600 that we'll be hearing from them again 412 00:20:29,909 --> 00:20:27,840 about uranus-sized planets but what 413 00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:29,919 about earth-type planets where would 414 00:20:34,549 --> 00:20:31,840 they fall on that graph that we're 415 00:20:36,950 --> 00:20:34,559 talking about the answer is earth 416 00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:36,960 doesn't fall on that graph it's so far 417 00:20:42,549 --> 00:20:39,600 below it's so small that you wouldn't 418 00:20:43,669 --> 00:20:42,559 even see it on that figure and so we're 419 00:20:45,750 --> 00:20:43,679 really 420 00:20:49,190 --> 00:20:45,760 when we're looking to the future 421 00:20:51,430 --> 00:20:49,200 we're really looking at even 422 00:20:54,310 --> 00:20:51,440 different techniques we're looking at 423 00:20:57,750 --> 00:20:54,320 space-based missions to find terrestrial 424 00:21:01,029 --> 00:20:57,760 planets and that's of course another 425 00:21:02,870 --> 00:21:01,039 holy grail if you will or golden fleece 426 00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:02,880 we're really looking hard to find 427 00:21:07,669 --> 00:21:05,280 terrestrial-type planets it's a key goal 428 00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:07,679 of what nasa is trying to do 429 00:21:11,110 --> 00:21:09,600 and for that we're going to need to go 430 00:21:13,830 --> 00:21:11,120 into outer space and we're going to be 431 00:21:15,350 --> 00:21:13,840 needing slightly newer techniques we're 432 00:21:17,510 --> 00:21:15,360 going to be needing to use techniques 433 00:21:20,789 --> 00:21:17,520 called interferometry for example the 434 00:21:22,470 --> 00:21:20,799 space interferometer mission we'll also 435 00:21:25,029 --> 00:21:22,480 be looking at 436 00:21:26,630 --> 00:21:25,039 the terrestrial planet finder mission 437 00:21:27,510 --> 00:21:26,640 these are going to be 438 00:21:29,029 --> 00:21:27,520 very 439 00:21:32,070 --> 00:21:29,039 important things that we're going to do 440 00:21:34,470 --> 00:21:32,080 in the future the important news today 441 00:21:36,950 --> 00:21:34,480 the reason we're here talking to you 442 00:21:39,909 --> 00:21:36,960 is that the discovery of 443 00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:39,919 saturn-sized objects is an extremely 444 00:21:45,270 --> 00:21:42,000 critical step 445 00:21:47,430 --> 00:21:45,280 towards finding terrestrial type planets 446 00:21:49,830 --> 00:21:47,440 we are now as we've said pushing 447 00:21:52,070 --> 00:21:49,840 boundaries that we have not pushed 448 00:21:55,990 --> 00:21:52,080 before and so that is why we are all 449 00:22:00,549 --> 00:21:57,669 thanks heidi 450 00:22:03,510 --> 00:22:00,559 and before we go back to don i'd just 451 00:22:05,750 --> 00:22:03,520 like to ask jeff and paul 452 00:22:09,590 --> 00:22:05,760 what these discoveries tell us about our 453 00:22:13,350 --> 00:22:11,510 i think one of the remarkable 454 00:22:15,430 --> 00:22:13,360 aspects of these discoveries and our 455 00:22:17,990 --> 00:22:15,440 previous ones is that for the first time 456 00:22:19,669 --> 00:22:18,000 in human history we can compare 457 00:22:21,669 --> 00:22:19,679 the characteristics of our own solar 458 00:22:24,310 --> 00:22:21,679 system with the exquisite nine planets 459 00:22:26,870 --> 00:22:24,320 one of which we cherish the earth 460 00:22:28,549 --> 00:22:26,880 all of which reside in circular orbits 461 00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:28,559 some of them are massive like jupiter 462 00:22:32,230 --> 00:22:30,240 and saturn some of them are rocky like 463 00:22:35,110 --> 00:22:32,240 the earth mars venus 464 00:22:38,149 --> 00:22:35,120 and we have the opportunity now finally 465 00:22:41,430 --> 00:22:38,159 to compare our solar system 466 00:22:43,669 --> 00:22:41,440 to planetary systems as a generic class 467 00:22:46,070 --> 00:22:43,679 in our milky way galaxy 468 00:22:49,190 --> 00:22:46,080 and the early signs are a little bit 469 00:22:49,990 --> 00:22:49,200 frightening actually and it is in brief 470 00:22:52,390 --> 00:22:50,000 that 471 00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:52,400 the planets we are finding as paul 472 00:22:56,789 --> 00:22:53,600 alluded 473 00:23:00,230 --> 00:22:56,799 typically are in elongated eccentric 474 00:23:02,310 --> 00:23:00,240 orbits rather than circular orbits that 475 00:23:05,029 --> 00:23:02,320 characterize the nine planets in our own 476 00:23:08,070 --> 00:23:05,039 solar system and so the early returns in 477 00:23:10,950 --> 00:23:08,080 this poll of planets suggests that our 478 00:23:13,510 --> 00:23:10,960 solar system is somewhat unusual this is 479 00:23:16,230 --> 00:23:13,520 an entirely preliminary thought because 480 00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:16,240 we have not yet discovered true jupiter 481 00:23:20,310 --> 00:23:17,440 analogs 482 00:23:22,630 --> 00:23:20,320 that alan and heidi were referring to 483 00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:22,640 and when we can find jupiter analogs 484 00:23:27,750 --> 00:23:25,520 that orbit as far from their star as our 485 00:23:30,149 --> 00:23:27,760 jupiter orbits the sun then we'll be 486 00:23:33,750 --> 00:23:30,159 able to do a direct comparison but the 487 00:23:36,149 --> 00:23:33,760 early suggestion is that the orbits of 488 00:23:38,230 --> 00:23:36,159 planets around other stars are more 489 00:23:40,710 --> 00:23:38,240 eccentric than those in our own solar 490 00:23:44,310 --> 00:23:40,720 system and this may have something to do 491 00:23:46,549 --> 00:23:44,320 with the fact that biology and life has 492 00:23:49,590 --> 00:23:46,559 flourished here on the earth in our 493 00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:52,070 i'd like to um go back to the mass 494 00:23:55,510 --> 00:23:54,320 distribution diagram for just a moment 495 00:23:57,269 --> 00:23:55,520 uh 496 00:23:58,710 --> 00:23:57,279 one of the extraordinary things about 497 00:23:59,750 --> 00:23:58,720 the distribution of course is that as 498 00:24:01,110 --> 00:23:59,760 you go to lower masses you're seeing 499 00:24:02,630 --> 00:24:01,120 more and more objects although they're 500 00:24:05,510 --> 00:24:02,640 harder to detect 501 00:24:07,750 --> 00:24:05,520 and if we are to maybe somewhat wildly 502 00:24:10,070 --> 00:24:07,760 uh extrapolate that diagram down to 503 00:24:12,070 --> 00:24:10,080 earth masses the early suggestion is 504 00:24:13,590 --> 00:24:12,080 that earth mass planets are probably 505 00:24:15,029 --> 00:24:13,600 extremely common in the galaxy the 506 00:24:16,830 --> 00:24:15,039 galaxy might just be littered with earth 507 00:24:20,149 --> 00:24:16,840 mass planets 508 00:24:21,430 --> 00:24:20,159 um the second point is jeff was 509 00:24:23,909 --> 00:24:21,440 referring to was of course the 510 00:24:25,350 --> 00:24:23,919 habitability of these potential earths 511 00:24:27,110 --> 00:24:25,360 and um 512 00:24:28,710 --> 00:24:27,120 the eccentricity of the orbits of course 513 00:24:30,870 --> 00:24:28,720 of the planets we're finding right now 514 00:24:33,110 --> 00:24:30,880 probably rule out nice stable uh 515 00:24:34,549 --> 00:24:33,120 earth-like orbital positions where you 516 00:24:37,269 --> 00:24:34,559 get liquid water 517 00:24:39,029 --> 00:24:37,279 um we can have the uh the graphic of the 518 00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:39,039 orbital distribution or the uh the 519 00:24:45,990 --> 00:24:44,230 in this diagram here you see where the 520 00:24:48,549 --> 00:24:46,000 sub-saturn that was that we're 521 00:24:50,710 --> 00:24:48,559 announcing today 79 seti how it fits in 522 00:24:51,750 --> 00:24:50,720 relative to the solar system a planet 523 00:24:53,510 --> 00:24:51,760 like this 524 00:24:55,830 --> 00:24:53,520 eve it's about a border hundreds uh 525 00:24:57,909 --> 00:24:55,840 earth masses would make stable orbits in 526 00:24:59,190 --> 00:24:57,919 the inner solar system impossible so if 527 00:25:02,149 --> 00:24:59,200 such a planet were in our own solar 528 00:25:04,070 --> 00:25:02,159 system we wouldn't be here um it 529 00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:04,080 turns out that uh in addition to the 530 00:25:07,830 --> 00:25:05,760 fact that our orbit is circular which 531 00:25:09,750 --> 00:25:07,840 makes for a nice stable uh climate and 532 00:25:11,350 --> 00:25:09,760 allows liquid water to exist year round 533 00:25:13,269 --> 00:25:11,360 and life to flourish 534 00:25:16,149 --> 00:25:13,279 the other planet that's critical to our 535 00:25:18,310 --> 00:25:16,159 life uh is jupiter and the circularity 536 00:25:20,789 --> 00:25:18,320 of jupiter's orbit because jupiter is 537 00:25:22,789 --> 00:25:20,799 the big boy on the block uh more massive 538 00:25:24,310 --> 00:25:22,799 than all the other planets combined 539 00:25:25,990 --> 00:25:24,320 whatever it does it enforces on 540 00:25:27,909 --> 00:25:26,000 everybody else and by virtue of the fact 541 00:25:30,390 --> 00:25:27,919 that jupiter is in a circular orbit it 542 00:25:32,390 --> 00:25:30,400 enforces circularity on the rest of us 543 00:25:34,230 --> 00:25:32,400 jupiter does a second extremely critical 544 00:25:36,149 --> 00:25:34,240 thing which george weather pointed out 545 00:25:37,830 --> 00:25:36,159 it acts as an enormous gravitational 546 00:25:39,190 --> 00:25:37,840 vacuum cleaner sweeping up all of the 547 00:25:41,510 --> 00:25:39,200 comets and asteroids which might 548 00:25:43,830 --> 00:25:41,520 otherwise smash into us and so instead 549 00:25:45,909 --> 00:25:43,840 of having uh one of these huge dinosaur 550 00:25:47,990 --> 00:25:45,919 killing impacts every few weeks we only 551 00:25:50,310 --> 00:25:48,000 have them every uh 10 or 30 million 552 00:25:52,149 --> 00:25:50,320 years so jupiter has these two critical 553 00:25:54,230 --> 00:25:52,159 things to make our existence possible 554 00:25:55,669 --> 00:25:54,240 and that's why it's so important for us 555 00:25:57,269 --> 00:25:55,679 to find solar system analogs 556 00:25:58,630 --> 00:25:57,279 jupiter-like planets orbiting out of the 557 00:26:00,390 --> 00:25:58,640 stars 558 00:26:01,830 --> 00:26:00,400 jeff just mentioned that the early 559 00:26:03,750 --> 00:26:01,840 returns don't look good that most these 560 00:26:06,149 --> 00:26:03,760 things are eccentric it should also be 561 00:26:07,909 --> 00:26:06,159 said that we're finding planets around 562 00:26:09,190 --> 00:26:07,919 about five to ten percent of the stars 563 00:26:10,870 --> 00:26:09,200 right now and what's going on with the 564 00:26:12,390 --> 00:26:10,880 other 90 to 95 percent of the stars 565 00:26:13,990 --> 00:26:12,400 simply isn't known at this point we need 566 00:26:16,149 --> 00:26:14,000 another 10 years of data to make any 567 00:26:17,990 --> 00:26:16,159 speculation whatsoever so the field is 568 00:26:20,070 --> 00:26:18,000 completely open at this point whether 569 00:26:21,990 --> 00:26:20,080 it's every other star that has solar 570 00:26:23,590 --> 00:26:22,000 system like uh objects or every 10th 571 00:26:25,430 --> 00:26:23,600 star or every 100th or every thousand 572 00:26:27,029 --> 00:26:25,440 star completely unknown at this point 573 00:26:28,789 --> 00:26:27,039 and we hope to be able to provide some 574 00:26:29,909 --> 00:26:28,799 empirical limits within the next 10 575 00:26:32,149 --> 00:26:29,919 years 576 00:26:33,750 --> 00:26:32,159 and thanks paul and jeff that's a 577 00:26:36,310 --> 00:26:33,760 beautiful description of our solar 578 00:26:37,510 --> 00:26:36,320 system as a sort of uh family that 579 00:26:39,190 --> 00:26:37,520 protects 580 00:26:42,710 --> 00:26:39,200 where the different members protect each 581 00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:42,720 other for uh developing uh don 582 00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:44,080 all right well thank you very much uh 583 00:26:47,669 --> 00:26:46,080 we'll uh start with questions here at 584 00:26:48,870 --> 00:26:47,679 nasa headquarters and then check our 585 00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:48,880 centers for 586 00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:50,559 go and give your name and affiliate jeff 587 00:26:55,269 --> 00:26:52,480 borenstein night reader newspapers for 588 00:26:57,110 --> 00:26:55,279 dr marcy uh can you tell us exactly what 589 00:26:59,590 --> 00:26:57,120 you did to refine your technique to find 590 00:27:01,110 --> 00:26:59,600 it this way and is there what 591 00:27:04,070 --> 00:27:01,120 on this graphic it talks about new 592 00:27:06,789 --> 00:27:04,080 detection limits is there a discernible 593 00:27:09,669 --> 00:27:06,799 detection limit that you see given the 594 00:27:11,430 --> 00:27:09,679 existing technology is this it or how 595 00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:11,440 far much further can you will you be 596 00:27:21,269 --> 00:27:17,990 what has made these 597 00:27:23,750 --> 00:27:21,279 saturn discoveries possible is indeed 598 00:27:26,230 --> 00:27:23,760 some new breakthroughs technically 599 00:27:28,070 --> 00:27:26,240 in our work at the keck telescope and i 600 00:27:30,789 --> 00:27:28,080 should say that our other collaborator 601 00:27:33,590 --> 00:27:30,799 steve vogt has led the way in this 602 00:27:35,350 --> 00:27:33,600 uh he built a spectrometer which is at 603 00:27:36,710 --> 00:27:35,360 the back end if you will of the keck 604 00:27:38,549 --> 00:27:36,720 telescope five million dollar 605 00:27:40,389 --> 00:27:38,559 spectrometer without which we wouldn't 606 00:27:42,149 --> 00:27:40,399 detect any of these planets 607 00:27:45,269 --> 00:27:42,159 and what we've done in the last two 608 00:27:47,510 --> 00:27:45,279 years paul and i and steve is to learn 609 00:27:49,190 --> 00:27:47,520 some of the nuances the idiosyncrasies 610 00:27:51,669 --> 00:27:49,200 if you will of the behavior of this 611 00:27:54,070 --> 00:27:51,679 spectrometer it's a complicated optical 612 00:27:56,389 --> 00:27:54,080 device nobody could have predicted its 613 00:27:58,470 --> 00:27:56,399 actual performance ahead of time and 614 00:28:00,070 --> 00:27:58,480 we've done a large number of tests 615 00:28:02,789 --> 00:28:00,080 indeed paul and i have spent the 616 00:28:05,110 --> 00:28:02,799 majority of our time carrying out tests 617 00:28:07,350 --> 00:28:05,120 of the performance of the spectrometer 618 00:28:09,590 --> 00:28:07,360 and developing software indeed paul has 619 00:28:13,029 --> 00:28:09,600 led the way in this writing software 620 00:28:15,430 --> 00:28:13,039 that accommodates the idiosyncrasies of 621 00:28:16,950 --> 00:28:15,440 the spectrometer we account for all this 622 00:28:18,950 --> 00:28:16,960 odd behavior 623 00:28:21,190 --> 00:28:18,960 subtracted away from our measurements 624 00:28:23,909 --> 00:28:21,200 leaving us with just the clean data the 625 00:28:27,029 --> 00:28:23,919 clean wobble of the star so that's an 626 00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:27,039 enormous uh boost forward making these 627 00:28:32,389 --> 00:28:30,640 ever smaller planet detections possible 628 00:28:34,710 --> 00:28:32,399 the ultimate limit 629 00:28:37,430 --> 00:28:34,720 is indeed ahead of us 630 00:28:40,310 --> 00:28:37,440 we are measuring the velocities of stars 631 00:28:44,149 --> 00:28:40,320 to plus or minus three meters per second 632 00:28:45,909 --> 00:28:44,159 which is sort of bicycle speed uh it is 633 00:28:48,230 --> 00:28:45,919 remarkable if i may reflect on that for 634 00:28:51,110 --> 00:28:48,240 a moment these stars are enormous 635 00:28:53,750 --> 00:28:51,120 spheres uh a million times bigger than 636 00:28:56,470 --> 00:28:53,760 the earth they are two or three hundred 637 00:28:58,070 --> 00:28:56,480 light years away and these globes of gas 638 00:28:59,909 --> 00:28:58,080 can be measured to plus or minus 639 00:29:01,590 --> 00:28:59,919 bicycling speed 640 00:29:03,269 --> 00:29:01,600 but we are at that point and what we'd 641 00:29:06,230 --> 00:29:03,279 like to do is to measure the speeds of 642 00:29:09,190 --> 00:29:06,240 stars even more accurately to human 643 00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:09,200 walking speed about one meter per second 644 00:29:13,269 --> 00:29:10,960 and i think paul and i feel that that's 645 00:29:16,310 --> 00:29:13,279 a realistic goal given the 646 00:29:18,230 --> 00:29:16,320 the known vagaries of the equipment the 647 00:29:20,710 --> 00:29:18,240 light gathering power of the keck 648 00:29:22,950 --> 00:29:20,720 telescope and we think 649 00:29:24,549 --> 00:29:22,960 with the new improvements that we have 650 00:29:27,350 --> 00:29:24,559 coming down the line we will be able to 651 00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:27,360 detect not just saturn's but neptunes 652 00:29:31,430 --> 00:29:30,320 which are about third the mass of 653 00:29:33,669 --> 00:29:31,440 saturn's 654 00:29:35,990 --> 00:29:33,679 we probably will not be able to go 655 00:29:38,470 --> 00:29:36,000 further uh frankly we'll be out of 656 00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:38,480 business we think in ten years when we 657 00:29:43,110 --> 00:29:40,799 found the saturns as well as 658 00:29:44,710 --> 00:29:43,120 the neptunes and then the jupiters being 659 00:29:47,830 --> 00:29:44,720 cleaned up 660 00:29:51,029 --> 00:29:47,840 we will need indeed to turn to the new 661 00:29:53,269 --> 00:29:51,039 technology that nasa is developing 662 00:29:55,669 --> 00:29:53,279 space-borne telescopes without which we 663 00:29:57,029 --> 00:29:55,679 will never detect earth-like planets 664 00:30:00,630 --> 00:29:57,039 so you might say this is somewhat 665 00:30:02,549 --> 00:30:00,640 unusual and nasa is uh supporting you 666 00:30:05,110 --> 00:30:02,559 know ground-based astronomy but for us 667 00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:05,120 this is a very long-term commitment we 668 00:30:09,990 --> 00:30:07,200 we need the planets 669 00:30:11,830 --> 00:30:10,000 that these guys are finding and i really 670 00:30:13,830 --> 00:30:11,840 would like to emphasize that this is not 671 00:30:15,510 --> 00:30:13,840 uh this is not something they developed 672 00:30:17,269 --> 00:30:15,520 the last 15 minutes these guys have been 673 00:30:20,230 --> 00:30:17,279 at work on this for 15 years when i 674 00:30:23,590 --> 00:30:20,240 first knew jeff 15 years ago i went to 675 00:30:25,669 --> 00:30:23,600 visit uh their setup at lick observatory 676 00:30:29,350 --> 00:30:25,679 and uh you know they were hard on work 677 00:30:31,110 --> 00:30:29,360 on the zeroth generation of of this 678 00:30:33,590 --> 00:30:31,120 technology it's extraordinarily 679 00:30:34,630 --> 00:30:33,600 difficult work that is very precise and 680 00:30:39,430 --> 00:30:34,640 you have to 681 00:30:41,110 --> 00:30:39,440 really be intrepid to succeed at it 682 00:30:46,710 --> 00:30:41,120 leonard 683 00:30:48,789 --> 00:30:46,720 of a little bit on the same wavelength 684 00:30:50,710 --> 00:30:48,799 what about the complementary nature of 685 00:30:52,630 --> 00:30:50,720 the techniques you're using for space 686 00:30:55,110 --> 00:30:52,640 based are you coming up with techniques 687 00:30:57,110 --> 00:30:55,120 that could be applied to space 688 00:30:58,710 --> 00:30:57,120 based instrumentation 689 00:31:00,070 --> 00:30:58,720 i get some sense here there could be a 690 00:31:01,430 --> 00:31:00,080 race between 691 00:31:03,430 --> 00:31:01,440 breakthroughs on the ground with 692 00:31:05,750 --> 00:31:03,440 technology and what nasa is going to be 693 00:31:07,430 --> 00:31:05,760 funding to spend big dollars to put in 694 00:31:10,149 --> 00:31:07,440 space 695 00:31:12,389 --> 00:31:10,159 shall i try it go ahead um 696 00:31:13,590 --> 00:31:12,399 actually i see it a little differently i 697 00:31:15,909 --> 00:31:13,600 see the 698 00:31:18,870 --> 00:31:15,919 ground-based efforts with keck and other 699 00:31:20,710 --> 00:31:18,880 large telescopes as as complementary and 700 00:31:22,789 --> 00:31:20,720 early reconnaissance 701 00:31:24,710 --> 00:31:22,799 for the space-born work that nasa will 702 00:31:26,710 --> 00:31:24,720 be doing and which will you know blow 703 00:31:28,389 --> 00:31:26,720 our minds away i think when it happens 704 00:31:30,630 --> 00:31:28,399 and the reason i say this is that our 705 00:31:33,430 --> 00:31:30,640 technique is just limited we really will 706 00:31:36,230 --> 00:31:33,440 not be able to detect the rocky earth 707 00:31:38,789 --> 00:31:36,240 mass planets the spaceborne techniques 708 00:31:40,070 --> 00:31:38,799 both the space interferometry mission 709 00:31:42,149 --> 00:31:40,080 called sim 710 00:31:43,990 --> 00:31:42,159 being developed here at nasa and also 711 00:31:46,549 --> 00:31:44,000 the terrestrial planet finder mission 712 00:31:49,590 --> 00:31:46,559 also developed here at nasa those two 713 00:31:52,710 --> 00:31:49,600 are targeted specifically to find earth 714 00:31:54,710 --> 00:31:52,720 type planets we can't touch that so in a 715 00:31:57,909 --> 00:31:54,720 way we're operating in parallel the 716 00:32:00,630 --> 00:31:57,919 reconnaissance we do now uh will tell us 717 00:32:03,909 --> 00:32:00,640 which stars have the big bullies the 718 00:32:06,710 --> 00:32:03,919 giant planets they may be signposts for 719 00:32:09,590 --> 00:32:06,720 the earth-like planets that nasa will 720 00:32:11,830 --> 00:32:09,600 come through and detect uh in the coming 721 00:32:13,750 --> 00:32:11,840 decade or two 722 00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:13,760 come on 723 00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:15,120 there's also another element of 724 00:32:20,070 --> 00:32:18,000 competition uh in that nasa has recently 725 00:32:22,230 --> 00:32:20,080 approved another space mission called 726 00:32:24,630 --> 00:32:22,240 fame for the full sky astrometric 727 00:32:26,950 --> 00:32:24,640 mapping explorer which finds planets not 728 00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:26,960 by looking for the doppler shift of the 729 00:32:30,789 --> 00:32:28,559 star but looking for the positional 730 00:32:32,389 --> 00:32:30,799 wobble of the star on the sky 731 00:32:34,549 --> 00:32:32,399 and fame will actually have the ability 732 00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:34,559 to find these long period jupiter-like 733 00:32:39,269 --> 00:32:36,720 planets that that jeff and paul can find 734 00:32:41,110 --> 00:32:39,279 from the ground so unfortunately jeff 735 00:32:42,630 --> 00:32:41,120 and paul have a several year ahead start 736 00:32:44,470 --> 00:32:42,640 fame won't be launched for a few more 737 00:32:46,389 --> 00:32:44,480 years but once it gets up in orbit it 738 00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:46,399 will also be looking for planets in that 739 00:32:51,269 --> 00:32:48,559 same area of parameter space where 740 00:32:52,230 --> 00:32:51,279 jupiter-like objects exist so in this 741 00:32:53,350 --> 00:32:52,240 sense 742 00:32:55,350 --> 00:32:53,360 it's really very good because 743 00:32:56,549 --> 00:32:55,360 competition we all know leads to people 744 00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:56,559 to make sure they're doing the best 745 00:32:59,669 --> 00:32:58,559 possible job but it's also very 746 00:33:00,870 --> 00:32:59,679 important because it will mean that 747 00:33:02,870 --> 00:33:00,880 there will be at least one other 748 00:33:04,950 --> 00:33:02,880 technique to confirm 749 00:33:07,269 --> 00:33:04,960 each other the radial velocity confirms 750 00:33:08,549 --> 00:33:07,279 can confirm instrumentary and vice versa 751 00:33:10,389 --> 00:33:08,559 which is of course 752 00:33:11,509 --> 00:33:10,399 something we really have to 753 00:33:13,269 --> 00:33:11,519 not 754 00:33:14,630 --> 00:33:13,279 forget about in any very difficult 755 00:33:16,710 --> 00:33:14,640 astronomy you really want to make sure 756 00:33:18,710 --> 00:33:16,720 that any dubious measurement can be 757 00:33:20,149 --> 00:33:18,720 confirmed by another measurement and so 758 00:33:22,549 --> 00:33:20,159 you really are finding something which 759 00:33:25,430 --> 00:33:22,559 is reproducible but this is a very 760 00:33:27,909 --> 00:33:25,440 exciting time in a field i mean to only 761 00:33:30,389 --> 00:33:27,919 know 34. with today's announcement i 762 00:33:33,590 --> 00:33:30,399 believe the number is 34. i mean we only 763 00:33:35,909 --> 00:33:33,600 know of 34 planets outside of our solar 764 00:33:38,789 --> 00:33:35,919 system and this is brand new we're going 765 00:33:40,870 --> 00:33:38,799 to learn what animals are in that zoo 766 00:33:44,149 --> 00:33:40,880 and we have no idea today it's going to 767 00:33:44,159 --> 00:33:46,710 bob 768 00:33:50,070 --> 00:33:48,389 sorry i'm sorry one of you mentioned 769 00:33:51,590 --> 00:33:50,080 that neptune when do you mention uranus 770 00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:51,600 which is the 771 00:33:54,230 --> 00:33:52,960 outer limit of what you might do from 772 00:33:55,350 --> 00:33:54,240 groundbreaking i think we've got the 773 00:33:56,789 --> 00:33:55,360 expert 774 00:33:58,870 --> 00:33:56,799 well actually he said they're going to 775 00:34:00,230 --> 00:33:58,880 be looking at at neptune but i think 776 00:34:01,990 --> 00:34:00,240 that uranus is probably going to be 777 00:34:04,950 --> 00:34:02,000 easier for them to find because they're 778 00:34:07,990 --> 00:34:04,960 comparable masses but uranus is closer 779 00:34:09,750 --> 00:34:08,000 in so it has a shorter period and so it 780 00:34:12,230 --> 00:34:09,760 just the closer it is to the star the 781 00:34:15,030 --> 00:34:12,240 easier it is for them to find 782 00:34:19,589 --> 00:34:18,069 does your 34 population include those 783 00:34:21,349 --> 00:34:19,599 so-called free-floating planets that the 784 00:34:22,710 --> 00:34:21,359 royal academy society talked about last 785 00:34:25,510 --> 00:34:22,720 week 786 00:34:27,990 --> 00:34:25,520 i don't think so uh those are brown 787 00:34:30,710 --> 00:34:28,000 dwarfs i believe i believe they aren't 788 00:34:32,149 --> 00:34:30,720 what we would call planets they're we 789 00:34:38,310 --> 00:34:32,159 call them and this isn't meant to be 790 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,270 down front and then 791 00:34:46,149 --> 00:34:44,389 randy shostak reporter with eos news 792 00:34:47,510 --> 00:34:46,159 at what point in your research of these 793 00:34:49,909 --> 00:34:47,520 planets did you 794 00:34:52,869 --> 00:34:49,919 did you say okay we've got uh some other 795 00:34:56,470 --> 00:34:52,879 planets and these are different and what 796 00:35:00,390 --> 00:34:58,230 well um 797 00:35:02,390 --> 00:35:00,400 these discoveries both sort of came on 798 00:35:04,710 --> 00:35:02,400 slowly these were not the sort of eureka 799 00:35:06,870 --> 00:35:04,720 moment discoveries we've had those also 800 00:35:09,270 --> 00:35:06,880 uh in the case of 79 seti we actually 801 00:35:11,430 --> 00:35:09,280 had a 75 day orbit for that a year ago 802 00:35:12,790 --> 00:35:11,440 and we sat on it for an additional year 803 00:35:14,710 --> 00:35:12,800 to make sure that all the data 804 00:35:16,710 --> 00:35:14,720 absolutely fit it exquisitely otherwise 805 00:35:20,550 --> 00:35:16,720 we would never have announced uh in the 806 00:35:22,230 --> 00:35:20,560 other case 46 375 that's got a slightly 807 00:35:24,150 --> 00:35:22,240 larger amplitude the amplitude for that 808 00:35:25,750 --> 00:35:24,160 is about 35 meters a second that's about 809 00:35:28,230 --> 00:35:25,760 three times larger amplitude which means 810 00:35:30,310 --> 00:35:28,240 it's three times easier to detect so 811 00:35:32,230 --> 00:35:30,320 again that that one didn't really push 812 00:35:33,829 --> 00:35:32,240 the system as much it was 79 seti that 813 00:35:35,190 --> 00:35:33,839 we really had to sit on for a long long 814 00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:35,200 time to make sure it was absolutely 815 00:35:39,109 --> 00:35:36,960 right 816 00:35:41,270 --> 00:35:39,119 yeah i'll just follow up to say that uh 817 00:35:43,510 --> 00:35:41,280 to confirm what paul said i was going 818 00:35:45,109 --> 00:35:43,520 back to my emails to remind myself of 819 00:35:48,230 --> 00:35:45,119 the history of the discovery of the 820 00:35:50,790 --> 00:35:48,240 planet around 79 centi and i have an 821 00:35:52,950 --> 00:35:50,800 email from paul that's dated august 822 00:35:54,710 --> 00:35:52,960 of 1999 823 00:35:57,589 --> 00:35:54,720 so i guess that's eight eight or nine 824 00:36:00,870 --> 00:35:57,599 months ago and in the email paul lists 825 00:36:02,630 --> 00:36:00,880 four or five hot candidates that he had 826 00:36:04,230 --> 00:36:02,640 sifted through and discovered in our 827 00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:04,240 existing database 828 00:36:08,790 --> 00:36:07,760 and 79 said he is in there so back in 829 00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:08,800 august 830 00:36:13,109 --> 00:36:10,720 the email from paul said it looks like 831 00:36:15,510 --> 00:36:13,119 it's a 75 day period and the orbital 832 00:36:17,750 --> 00:36:15,520 radius is blah and the mass is blocked 833 00:36:20,310 --> 00:36:17,760 and what we normally do at this stage is 834 00:36:22,630 --> 00:36:20,320 to wait a year typically gather more 835 00:36:24,630 --> 00:36:22,640 data and indeed the data for the past 836 00:36:27,270 --> 00:36:24,640 year has simply confirmed what we had 837 00:36:29,349 --> 00:36:27,280 known back in august of 99 838 00:36:30,710 --> 00:36:29,359 but let me repeat the question he asked 839 00:36:32,390 --> 00:36:30,720 how did you feel when you found these 840 00:36:33,750 --> 00:36:32,400 sub saturns 841 00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:33,760 um i would have been more shocked if 842 00:36:36,630 --> 00:36:35,040 we'd not found them 843 00:36:38,870 --> 00:36:36,640 we built a technique which can find 844 00:36:40,870 --> 00:36:38,880 saturn mass objects within one earth 845 00:36:41,990 --> 00:36:40,880 orbital distance and if we hadn't found 846 00:36:43,030 --> 00:36:42,000 them that would have been infinitely 847 00:36:44,790 --> 00:36:43,040 more shocking because that would have 848 00:36:46,390 --> 00:36:44,800 been there was a gap in the mass and 849 00:36:48,390 --> 00:36:46,400 maybe the objects we had found today 850 00:36:50,630 --> 00:36:48,400 weren't related to solar system planets 851 00:36:52,150 --> 00:36:50,640 but in fact we're seeing no gap as the 852 00:36:53,510 --> 00:36:52,160 technique gets better as our precision 853 00:36:55,109 --> 00:36:53,520 gets better we're finding smaller and 854 00:36:56,630 --> 00:36:55,119 smaller planets and that's exactly what 855 00:36:58,710 --> 00:36:56,640 we expect if these things are in fact 856 00:37:00,150 --> 00:36:58,720 planets as our own planets are 857 00:37:01,030 --> 00:37:00,160 so would have been shocking not to find 858 00:37:04,150 --> 00:37:01,040 them 859 00:37:06,710 --> 00:37:04,160 and i'll add another comment to that 860 00:37:08,630 --> 00:37:06,720 with regard to our emotional reactions 861 00:37:10,710 --> 00:37:08,640 it's very interesting 862 00:37:12,630 --> 00:37:10,720 when paul and i and i i can speak i 863 00:37:14,710 --> 00:37:12,640 think for both of us here when we see a 864 00:37:16,630 --> 00:37:14,720 potential planet coming down our 865 00:37:17,910 --> 00:37:16,640 conveyor belt of data 866 00:37:19,910 --> 00:37:17,920 we are indeed 867 00:37:22,470 --> 00:37:19,920 excited we're happy we're you know we 868 00:37:23,990 --> 00:37:22,480 work very hard for those moments but 869 00:37:28,470 --> 00:37:24,000 frankly the 870 00:37:30,870 --> 00:37:28,480 elation is usually tempered by the 871 00:37:33,109 --> 00:37:30,880 fright that we've made some mistakes 872 00:37:35,510 --> 00:37:33,119 somewhere and indeed that's why we spend 873 00:37:37,910 --> 00:37:35,520 an extra year following up 874 00:37:40,150 --> 00:37:37,920 doing some calculations some theoretical 875 00:37:42,230 --> 00:37:40,160 work we talk with our colleagues 876 00:37:43,990 --> 00:37:42,240 and we try to ascertain whether there's 877 00:37:47,030 --> 00:37:44,000 some way that we could have gone wrong 878 00:37:50,069 --> 00:37:47,040 and paul and i i think it's fair to say 879 00:37:52,150 --> 00:37:50,079 are proudest of the fact that of the 24 880 00:37:54,710 --> 00:37:52,160 planets we've discovered we've never 881 00:37:56,870 --> 00:37:54,720 made a false claim in the past four and 882 00:37:59,670 --> 00:37:56,880 a half years or so and it's a it's a 883 00:38:02,390 --> 00:37:59,680 track record that comes from fear and 884 00:38:05,270 --> 00:38:02,400 concern about making mistakes and 885 00:38:07,670 --> 00:38:05,280 so um you know our excitement always is 886 00:38:09,750 --> 00:38:07,680 tempered by sort of the objectivity of 887 00:38:11,829 --> 00:38:09,760 going back to the blackboard and trying 888 00:38:14,710 --> 00:38:11,839 to figure out what we can do even better 889 00:38:16,310 --> 00:38:14,720 to confirm what we suspect 890 00:38:18,310 --> 00:38:16,320 we'll take out two more questions here 891 00:38:20,630 --> 00:38:18,320 first then go to ames and then come back 892 00:38:21,750 --> 00:38:20,640 to headquarters so kurt go ahead 893 00:38:23,510 --> 00:38:21,760 curtis who played with the washington 894 00:38:25,910 --> 00:38:23,520 post can you explain to us just a little 895 00:38:27,510 --> 00:38:25,920 bit more that uh what precisely 896 00:38:29,510 --> 00:38:27,520 breakthrough it is that you're talking 897 00:38:32,310 --> 00:38:29,520 about in the detection there's no new 898 00:38:33,829 --> 00:38:32,320 detector the resolution is the same the 899 00:38:35,589 --> 00:38:33,839 instrument is the same 900 00:38:37,030 --> 00:38:35,599 so what is the technological 901 00:38:39,670 --> 00:38:37,040 breakthrough specifically that you're 902 00:38:42,310 --> 00:38:39,680 describing we model the spectrometer 903 00:38:44,310 --> 00:38:42,320 better now as the bottom line 904 00:38:45,910 --> 00:38:44,320 these detections are really incredibly 905 00:38:47,430 --> 00:38:45,920 minute uh 906 00:38:49,430 --> 00:38:47,440 literally at the point of olympic 907 00:38:52,390 --> 00:38:49,440 sprinting speed you know uh 908 00:38:54,069 --> 00:38:52,400 and uh it turns out very very teeny 909 00:38:55,670 --> 00:38:54,079 changes in the spectrometer very very 910 00:38:57,829 --> 00:38:55,680 teeny changes in how the light is 911 00:38:59,910 --> 00:38:57,839 focused by the spectrometer can dwarf 912 00:39:01,910 --> 00:38:59,920 our signal and we need to actually build 913 00:39:04,069 --> 00:39:01,920 a physical model of our spectrometer in 914 00:39:05,670 --> 00:39:04,079 the computer and we've made significant 915 00:39:08,710 --> 00:39:05,680 improvements in our modeling within the 916 00:39:14,630 --> 00:39:10,710 okay we'll take one more question here 917 00:39:16,470 --> 00:39:14,640 all right mary oh sorry sorry i just i 918 00:39:18,390 --> 00:39:16,480 you know for us that's the key question 919 00:39:20,710 --> 00:39:18,400 actually that you've asked and i'll just 920 00:39:22,310 --> 00:39:20,720 say somewhat more quantitatively 921 00:39:24,150 --> 00:39:22,320 up till a year ago 922 00:39:26,150 --> 00:39:24,160 the precision with which we could 923 00:39:29,109 --> 00:39:26,160 measure the speeds of stars was plus or 924 00:39:32,069 --> 00:39:29,119 minus eight meters per second 925 00:39:35,030 --> 00:39:32,079 and only in the last 6 to 12 months have 926 00:39:36,710 --> 00:39:35,040 these improvements that paul mentioned 927 00:39:39,109 --> 00:39:36,720 building a computer model of our 928 00:39:41,510 --> 00:39:39,119 spectrometer allowed us to achieve a 929 00:39:43,510 --> 00:39:41,520 precision of plus or minus 3 meters per 930 00:39:44,950 --> 00:39:43,520 second in fact paul and i think that our 931 00:39:47,270 --> 00:39:44,960 precision is even a little better than 932 00:39:49,829 --> 00:39:47,280 three meters a second so we have 933 00:39:53,190 --> 00:39:49,839 demonstrable improvements both in our 934 00:39:56,069 --> 00:39:53,200 results and in the approach that we took 935 00:39:58,470 --> 00:39:56,079 to get to these results 936 00:40:01,910 --> 00:40:00,230 how many other objects do you have on 937 00:40:04,710 --> 00:40:01,920 that hot list of candidates that you 938 00:40:07,589 --> 00:40:04,720 discussed from august of 99 and when 939 00:40:08,829 --> 00:40:07,599 might we learn of those 940 00:40:16,870 --> 00:40:08,839 uh 941 00:40:19,750 --> 00:40:16,880 potential jupiters are are stored on our 942 00:40:21,750 --> 00:40:19,760 hard disk that we haven't yet revealed 943 00:40:25,109 --> 00:40:21,760 it reminds me a little bit of the i love 944 00:40:26,950 --> 00:40:25,119 lucy episode where lucy says to herself 945 00:40:28,309 --> 00:40:26,960 i can have a job and make money and she 946 00:40:30,710 --> 00:40:28,319 goes to be a 947 00:40:32,550 --> 00:40:30,720 quality checker at a candy factory 948 00:40:34,790 --> 00:40:32,560 and the candies come down the conveyor 949 00:40:36,309 --> 00:40:34,800 belt and she sees them coming down and 950 00:40:38,470 --> 00:40:36,319 there's more and more candies and she 951 00:40:40,069 --> 00:40:38,480 can't check their quality and she starts 952 00:40:42,550 --> 00:40:40,079 eating them 953 00:40:45,109 --> 00:40:42,560 to just handle the flow paul and i are 954 00:40:45,990 --> 00:40:45,119 in a very lucky era which i think we're 955 00:40:48,470 --> 00:40:46,000 both 956 00:40:50,390 --> 00:40:48,480 just ecstatic about actually and that is 957 00:40:52,710 --> 00:40:50,400 we can indeed see down the line there 958 00:40:54,390 --> 00:40:52,720 are something like six to ten 959 00:40:56,150 --> 00:40:54,400 planets that we know of that we've 960 00:40:57,990 --> 00:40:56,160 emailed each other about that we talk 961 00:41:00,150 --> 00:40:58,000 about when we're at the telescope that 962 00:41:02,069 --> 00:41:00,160 look promising we are waiting for 963 00:41:04,630 --> 00:41:02,079 another half a year or year or maybe a 964 00:41:05,829 --> 00:41:04,640 year and a half of data to confirm these 965 00:41:07,670 --> 00:41:05,839 planets 966 00:41:09,430 --> 00:41:07,680 some of them are jupiter-sized we have 967 00:41:11,190 --> 00:41:09,440 one i think it's fair to say that's 968 00:41:13,109 --> 00:41:11,200 about a third of a jupiter size very 969 00:41:15,430 --> 00:41:13,119 close to a saturn we decided not to 970 00:41:17,510 --> 00:41:15,440 announce it today but it's a dead ringer 971 00:41:19,510 --> 00:41:17,520 for something about very close to a 972 00:41:21,990 --> 00:41:19,520 saturn size just a little above 973 00:41:24,710 --> 00:41:22,000 so we have a lot of them were the keck 974 00:41:26,470 --> 00:41:24,720 telescope is just this marvelous machine 975 00:41:28,950 --> 00:41:26,480 for finding planets with the 976 00:41:30,710 --> 00:41:28,960 spectrometer and we feel very lucky to 977 00:41:33,030 --> 00:41:30,720 have been in the right place with the 978 00:41:36,550 --> 00:41:33,040 right telescope to to have this conveyor 979 00:41:41,109 --> 00:41:38,150 okay we'll take questions from the aims 980 00:41:43,349 --> 00:41:41,119 research center in california and please 981 00:41:45,349 --> 00:41:43,359 give us your name and affiliation 982 00:41:47,109 --> 00:41:45,359 hi this is glenda chu from san jose 983 00:41:49,270 --> 00:41:47,119 mercury news i have two questions the 984 00:41:50,630 --> 00:41:49,280 first is is there any indication that 985 00:41:54,069 --> 00:41:50,640 either of these planets could harbor 986 00:41:57,190 --> 00:41:55,349 um 987 00:41:59,150 --> 00:41:57,200 it's very unlikely that these planets 988 00:42:01,430 --> 00:41:59,160 would have liquid water uh 989 00:42:03,349 --> 00:42:01,440 hd46375 is in one of these three-day 990 00:42:05,829 --> 00:42:03,359 orbits and so it's going to be heated to 991 00:42:08,309 --> 00:42:05,839 like about 2000 degrees fahrenheit 992 00:42:10,230 --> 00:42:08,319 uh the other planet 79 seti is in a 993 00:42:11,750 --> 00:42:10,240 75-day orbital period the orbital 994 00:42:13,589 --> 00:42:11,760 distance is in fact very similar to 995 00:42:16,069 --> 00:42:13,599 mercury in our own system so it's also 996 00:42:17,670 --> 00:42:16,079 going to be far far too hot 997 00:42:19,750 --> 00:42:17,680 so sadly no liquid water on these 998 00:42:21,589 --> 00:42:19,760 systems 999 00:42:24,710 --> 00:42:21,599 question is can you say something about 1000 00:42:26,710 --> 00:42:24,720 the status of these space-based missions 1001 00:42:28,309 --> 00:42:26,720 that would look for earth-sized planets 1002 00:42:31,910 --> 00:42:28,319 how far along are they in the conveyor 1003 00:42:33,030 --> 00:42:31,920 belt of nasa uh well let me address that 1004 00:42:35,270 --> 00:42:33,040 there's uh 1005 00:42:38,309 --> 00:42:35,280 there's really a uh 1006 00:42:40,309 --> 00:42:38,319 a sort of line of these projects that 1007 00:42:42,710 --> 00:42:40,319 are very interwoven 1008 00:42:45,270 --> 00:42:42,720 um and we we start on the ground 1009 00:42:47,910 --> 00:42:45,280 actually with the keck interferometer to 1010 00:42:50,550 --> 00:42:47,920 try to to really get a grasp on optical 1011 00:42:54,550 --> 00:42:50,560 interferometry from the ground and then 1012 00:42:56,790 --> 00:42:54,560 we do a technology test in space it's 1013 00:42:59,030 --> 00:42:56,800 called space technology three 1014 00:43:01,270 --> 00:42:59,040 and and that is to get a grasp on 1015 00:43:02,870 --> 00:43:01,280 formation flying from space because 1016 00:43:05,190 --> 00:43:02,880 that's what we eventually have to be 1017 00:43:07,510 --> 00:43:05,200 able to do to find the earth-sized 1018 00:43:09,510 --> 00:43:07,520 planets we have to do formation flying 1019 00:43:12,309 --> 00:43:09,520 and then we get a grasp on doing 1020 00:43:14,950 --> 00:43:12,319 informatory in space so that's the space 1021 00:43:17,829 --> 00:43:14,960 interferometry mission and then after 1022 00:43:19,510 --> 00:43:17,839 that and only after that after we have 1023 00:43:22,150 --> 00:43:19,520 proven each 1024 00:43:24,150 --> 00:43:22,160 brick of technology in the wall only 1025 00:43:26,150 --> 00:43:24,160 then do we go on to the terrestrial 1026 00:43:29,510 --> 00:43:26,160 planet finder where these different 1027 00:43:32,150 --> 00:43:29,520 technologies are all utilized so so this 1028 00:43:34,069 --> 00:43:32,160 is a this is a challenge nobody says 1029 00:43:36,150 --> 00:43:34,079 this is easy and i think if it were easy 1030 00:43:38,870 --> 00:43:36,160 and trivial we probably wouldn't be all 1031 00:43:41,910 --> 00:43:38,880 that interested in doing it uh it it's a 1032 00:43:48,630 --> 00:43:41,920 challenge and there is a uh a very 1033 00:43:53,829 --> 00:43:51,190 more questions from ames 1034 00:43:56,950 --> 00:43:53,839 yeah i'm later back from a brazilian 1035 00:43:59,670 --> 00:43:56,960 daily newspaper we started sao paulo and 1036 00:44:02,550 --> 00:43:59,680 my question relates to the orbits of 1037 00:44:04,710 --> 00:44:02,560 these new systems uh you said they are 1038 00:44:07,829 --> 00:44:04,720 most of them are eccentric 1039 00:44:09,910 --> 00:44:07,839 and our own solar system has concentric 1040 00:44:12,550 --> 00:44:09,920 orbits i wonder 1041 00:44:15,750 --> 00:44:12,560 if you have a good explanation for that 1042 00:44:22,790 --> 00:44:15,760 and if it's related to the age of each 1043 00:44:25,349 --> 00:44:24,069 um 1044 00:44:26,550 --> 00:44:25,359 the 1045 00:44:29,030 --> 00:44:26,560 stars 1046 00:44:32,630 --> 00:44:29,040 which we have discovered having these 1047 00:44:35,589 --> 00:44:32,640 planets in eccentric elongated orbits 1048 00:44:37,109 --> 00:44:35,599 have all types of ages some of the stars 1049 00:44:38,550 --> 00:44:37,119 are very young 1050 00:44:40,630 --> 00:44:38,560 in astronomy 1051 00:44:42,390 --> 00:44:40,640 terms that means the stars are only a 1052 00:44:44,550 --> 00:44:42,400 billion years old 1053 00:44:47,829 --> 00:44:44,560 and some of the stars are quite old 10 1054 00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:47,839 billion years old and stars of 1055 00:44:53,910 --> 00:44:50,400 either great youth or great age both 1056 00:44:56,230 --> 00:44:53,920 seem to have these eccentric oval orbits 1057 00:44:57,910 --> 00:44:56,240 we think but it's in the theoretical 1058 00:45:01,430 --> 00:44:57,920 realm that the oval orbits of the 1059 00:45:03,430 --> 00:45:01,440 planets stem from gravitational 1060 00:45:05,670 --> 00:45:03,440 slingshotting of one planet off of 1061 00:45:07,430 --> 00:45:05,680 another uh but we're not really sure 1062 00:45:09,270 --> 00:45:07,440 this is in a realm where we need to 1063 00:45:11,589 --> 00:45:09,280 gather more data and turn to the 1064 00:45:13,270 --> 00:45:11,599 theorists who are generating we could 1065 00:45:15,349 --> 00:45:13,280 try turning to our yeah and i was going 1066 00:45:17,030 --> 00:45:15,359 to say alan boss may have some ideas 1067 00:45:18,390 --> 00:45:17,040 about where the eccentric orbits come 1068 00:45:19,829 --> 00:45:18,400 from yeah that's actually an excellent 1069 00:45:21,829 --> 00:45:19,839 question in fact i think trying to 1070 00:45:23,510 --> 00:45:21,839 understand the eccentric orbits of these 1071 00:45:25,109 --> 00:45:23,520 new extrasolar planets is one of the 1072 00:45:26,470 --> 00:45:25,119 major theoretical problems it's 1073 00:45:28,150 --> 00:45:26,480 outstanding at this point it's really 1074 00:45:29,670 --> 00:45:28,160 very much a surprise because all we of 1075 00:45:31,750 --> 00:45:29,680 course had known before this was our own 1076 00:45:33,270 --> 00:45:31,760 solar system and so theorists had spent 1077 00:45:34,950 --> 00:45:33,280 several decades trying to explain 1078 00:45:36,870 --> 00:45:34,960 circular orbits now suddenly they 1079 00:45:39,030 --> 00:45:36,880 realize they've got to explain eccentric 1080 00:45:41,109 --> 00:45:39,040 orbits as well and one possible 1081 00:45:42,870 --> 00:45:41,119 explanation is what jeff just pointed 1082 00:45:44,710 --> 00:45:42,880 out that perhaps when you make several 1083 00:45:46,390 --> 00:45:44,720 planets they end up so close together 1084 00:45:47,190 --> 00:45:46,400 that they gravitationally perturb each 1085 00:45:48,470 --> 00:45:47,200 other 1086 00:45:49,750 --> 00:45:48,480 even if they start out on circular 1087 00:45:51,990 --> 00:45:49,760 orbits they kick each other into 1088 00:45:53,430 --> 00:45:52,000 eccentric orbits that's one possible way 1089 00:45:55,109 --> 00:45:53,440 of doing it although you have to worry 1090 00:45:56,309 --> 00:45:55,119 about making them so close together in 1091 00:45:58,069 --> 00:45:56,319 the first place which is probably the 1092 00:45:59,109 --> 00:45:58,079 biggest drawback to that particular 1093 00:46:00,390 --> 00:45:59,119 mechanism 1094 00:46:02,230 --> 00:46:00,400 there is another possibility though 1095 00:46:04,390 --> 00:46:02,240 which is that if you make gas giant 1096 00:46:05,990 --> 00:46:04,400 planets through a disk and stability 1097 00:46:07,670 --> 00:46:06,000 which is not the preferred way of making 1098 00:46:09,829 --> 00:46:07,680 it if you make it through a disk which 1099 00:46:12,470 --> 00:46:09,839 is cold enough and massive enough to 1100 00:46:14,390 --> 00:46:12,480 clump together into large balls of gas 1101 00:46:15,829 --> 00:46:14,400 through its own self-gravity 1102 00:46:17,190 --> 00:46:15,839 some recent simulations that i've been 1103 00:46:19,190 --> 00:46:17,200 working on at least imply that when 1104 00:46:19,829 --> 00:46:19,200 those clumps first form they start out 1105 00:46:21,270 --> 00:46:19,839 on 1106 00:46:22,790 --> 00:46:21,280 eccentric orbits so it could be that 1107 00:46:24,950 --> 00:46:22,800 that particular mechanism actually 1108 00:46:26,390 --> 00:46:24,960 produces clumps with eccentric orbits 1109 00:46:28,069 --> 00:46:26,400 but that's really 1110 00:46:29,430 --> 00:46:28,079 pretty much premature to make that claim 1111 00:46:30,870 --> 00:46:29,440 at this point because these are 1112 00:46:32,150 --> 00:46:30,880 calculations that need to be reproduced 1113 00:46:33,910 --> 00:46:32,160 by other workers 1114 00:46:35,829 --> 00:46:33,920 in terms of the conventional making 1115 00:46:37,990 --> 00:46:35,839 jupiter where you build up a solid clump 1116 00:46:39,430 --> 00:46:38,000 and then pull gas onto it those models 1117 00:46:41,190 --> 00:46:39,440 pretty much imply that you start off on 1118 00:46:43,430 --> 00:46:41,200 a circular orbit so we've got a real 1119 00:46:44,390 --> 00:46:43,440 puzzle here well let me address this 1120 00:46:47,030 --> 00:46:44,400 also 1121 00:46:49,510 --> 00:46:47,040 one thing we need to stress is that we 1122 00:46:53,190 --> 00:46:49,520 actually have been finding jupiter-sized 1123 00:46:55,910 --> 00:46:53,200 planets but we haven't yet seen 1124 00:46:57,990 --> 00:46:55,920 a jupiter a true jupiter analog in other 1125 00:47:00,630 --> 00:46:58,000 words one that is at jupiter's distance 1126 00:47:03,750 --> 00:47:00,640 from our sun we have not yet found a 1127 00:47:05,349 --> 00:47:03,760 solar system like our solar system and 1128 00:47:07,109 --> 00:47:05,359 that's because we you guys haven't been 1129 00:47:10,150 --> 00:47:07,119 observing long enough you should be back 1130 00:47:12,390 --> 00:47:10,160 at the telescope for another ten years 1131 00:47:15,510 --> 00:47:12,400 and and then after that then we might be 1132 00:47:17,670 --> 00:47:15,520 able to find solar systems that are like 1133 00:47:21,589 --> 00:47:17,680 our solar system at this point we just 1134 00:47:25,750 --> 00:47:23,030 okay we'll come back here to nasa 1135 00:47:26,790 --> 00:47:25,760 headquarters and take more questions go 1136 00:47:28,630 --> 00:47:26,800 ahead seth 1137 00:47:32,470 --> 00:47:28,640 for dr marcy just to continue on that 1138 00:47:34,069 --> 00:47:32,480 line you mentioned that perhaps our the 1139 00:47:37,030 --> 00:47:34,079 more 1140 00:47:39,670 --> 00:47:37,040 normalized circular concentric orbits of 1141 00:47:42,630 --> 00:47:39,680 our solar system are rare 1142 00:47:45,670 --> 00:47:42,640 is um how i guess i know that's more 1143 00:47:48,390 --> 00:47:45,680 theory how confident are you that you 1144 00:47:49,750 --> 00:47:48,400 that uh you they just aren't that a lot 1145 00:47:50,829 --> 00:47:49,760 of those out there that you're not 1146 00:47:53,349 --> 00:47:50,839 seeing 1147 00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:53,359 versus that they are rare i'm trying to 1148 00:47:57,829 --> 00:47:55,280 understand why you're leaning toward 1149 00:48:00,870 --> 00:47:57,839 that way yeah it's a good question um 1150 00:48:03,589 --> 00:48:00,880 here's the situation paul and i have 1151 00:48:05,270 --> 00:48:03,599 been using the keck telescope uh for the 1152 00:48:07,430 --> 00:48:05,280 past four years 1153 00:48:10,549 --> 00:48:07,440 and i should say by the way that we're 1154 00:48:12,150 --> 00:48:10,559 greatly indebted uh both to nasa and the 1155 00:48:14,390 --> 00:48:12,160 national science foundation for the 1156 00:48:16,309 --> 00:48:14,400 funding to let us do this and also to 1157 00:48:18,549 --> 00:48:16,319 the university of california that also 1158 00:48:21,109 --> 00:48:18,559 operates the keck telescope and i bring 1159 00:48:23,990 --> 00:48:21,119 this up because during the past four 1160 00:48:27,190 --> 00:48:24,000 years we've been gathering data 1161 00:48:30,230 --> 00:48:27,200 which allows us to detect planets in 1162 00:48:33,109 --> 00:48:30,240 orbits that take about four years for 1163 00:48:34,950 --> 00:48:33,119 the planet to go around if a planet took 1164 00:48:36,790 --> 00:48:34,960 more than four years to go around its 1165 00:48:37,589 --> 00:48:36,800 star we haven't been watching long 1166 00:48:39,270 --> 00:48:37,599 enough 1167 00:48:41,349 --> 00:48:39,280 and so with 1168 00:48:44,150 --> 00:48:41,359 nasa and the university of california's 1169 00:48:46,309 --> 00:48:44,160 help as well as nsf we hope to continue 1170 00:48:49,030 --> 00:48:46,319 this project for another five or ten 1171 00:48:51,829 --> 00:48:49,040 years and only then will we be sensitive 1172 00:48:54,150 --> 00:48:51,839 to planets that orbit farther away 1173 00:48:56,549 --> 00:48:54,160 namely the orbits that take longer to go 1174 00:48:58,309 --> 00:48:56,559 around their host star so the bottom 1175 00:49:00,870 --> 00:48:58,319 line is absolutely right as all i think 1176 00:49:02,950 --> 00:49:00,880 all of us now have touched on 1177 00:49:05,190 --> 00:49:02,960 we are very excited about the prospect 1178 00:49:07,589 --> 00:49:05,200 for the future which is to detect 1179 00:49:10,309 --> 00:49:07,599 planets that take as long to go around 1180 00:49:12,470 --> 00:49:10,319 their star a decade or two decades as 1181 00:49:14,630 --> 00:49:12,480 the giant planets in our solar system 1182 00:49:16,549 --> 00:49:14,640 take to go around our sun 1183 00:49:17,430 --> 00:49:16,559 but if scientists have 30 objects 1184 00:49:19,750 --> 00:49:17,440 they're going to start making 1185 00:49:22,790 --> 00:49:19,760 conclusions about 30 objects 1186 00:49:25,109 --> 00:49:22,800 who can resist that temptation 1187 00:49:26,470 --> 00:49:25,119 back over there i'm dan vergano with usa 1188 00:49:27,430 --> 00:49:26,480 today 1189 00:49:29,109 --> 00:49:27,440 i had 1190 00:49:31,829 --> 00:49:29,119 two questions really 1191 00:49:33,589 --> 00:49:31,839 on the wobble charts you showed the data 1192 00:49:35,030 --> 00:49:33,599 points i'm curious about how many data 1193 00:49:36,390 --> 00:49:35,040 points does it take 1194 00:49:40,710 --> 00:49:36,400 to 1195 00:49:46,390 --> 00:49:43,349 um we get early hints literally by the 1196 00:49:48,790 --> 00:49:46,400 fourth or fifth observation 1197 00:49:50,390 --> 00:49:48,800 but we can't really get a good orbit 1198 00:49:52,230 --> 00:49:50,400 until we've got about 15 or 20 1199 00:49:55,430 --> 00:49:52,240 observations 1200 00:49:59,349 --> 00:49:55,440 time baseline that's longer than the 1201 00:50:03,589 --> 00:50:01,030 and the other question is uh can you 1202 00:50:05,270 --> 00:50:03,599 tell me have you ruled out any stars or 1203 00:50:07,190 --> 00:50:05,280 about how many have you rolled out as 1204 00:50:09,430 --> 00:50:07,200 hosts for these hot roasters or et 1205 00:50:10,870 --> 00:50:09,440 cetera yeah the the hot roasters you 1206 00:50:13,349 --> 00:50:10,880 know if you pick a mass limit like a 1207 00:50:14,309 --> 00:50:13,359 saturn mass limit it's easy to rule out 1208 00:50:15,910 --> 00:50:14,319 you know 1209 00:50:18,150 --> 00:50:15,920 my guess is right now probably only 1210 00:50:19,829 --> 00:50:18,160 about one star out of every 200 has got 1211 00:50:23,670 --> 00:50:19,839 one of these hot roaster planets in sort 1212 00:50:26,630 --> 00:50:25,109 the uh 1213 00:50:28,309 --> 00:50:26,640 maybe the more exciting thing to rule 1214 00:50:29,589 --> 00:50:28,319 out is the presence of solar system 1215 00:50:31,750 --> 00:50:29,599 analogs 1216 00:50:33,910 --> 00:50:31,760 and while i wouldn't i wouldn't go so 1217 00:50:35,910 --> 00:50:33,920 far to say we can rule any out we do see 1218 00:50:37,430 --> 00:50:35,920 a lot of stars that are just flat line 1219 00:50:39,109 --> 00:50:37,440 dead stable that show no velocity 1220 00:50:40,950 --> 00:50:39,119 variations above our measurement error 1221 00:50:43,670 --> 00:50:40,960 of three meters a second and we're 1222 00:50:45,910 --> 00:50:43,680 seeing this now over four years five 1223 00:50:48,630 --> 00:50:45,920 years or so so those don't look real 1224 00:50:50,549 --> 00:50:48,640 promising um but let me just ask what 1225 00:50:53,270 --> 00:50:50,559 how many meters a second does the earth 1226 00:50:55,030 --> 00:50:53,280 tug the sun okay earth tugs the sun by 1227 00:50:57,910 --> 00:50:55,040 an imperceptible amount it's about one 1228 00:50:59,510 --> 00:50:57,920 tenth of a meter per second and 1229 00:51:01,109 --> 00:50:59,520 no technology in the world can come 1230 00:51:03,190 --> 00:51:01,119 close to that right now but jupiter 1231 00:51:06,069 --> 00:51:03,200 jupiter tugs the sun by 12 and a half 1232 00:51:07,190 --> 00:51:06,079 meters a second um so with 79 seti for 1233 00:51:09,190 --> 00:51:07,200 the first time we're measuring things 1234 00:51:11,349 --> 00:51:09,200 that have a smaller tug than that so 1235 00:51:13,030 --> 00:51:11,359 jupiter's are now detectable after half 1236 00:51:15,670 --> 00:51:13,040 a jupiter orbital period you expect to 1237 00:51:17,750 --> 00:51:15,680 see the star wobble by border 12 meters 1238 00:51:19,750 --> 00:51:17,760 a second and we have a number of stars 1239 00:51:21,990 --> 00:51:19,760 that after four or five years are just 1240 00:51:22,950 --> 00:51:22,000 dead at the three meter per second level 1241 00:51:24,549 --> 00:51:22,960 and so 1242 00:51:26,069 --> 00:51:24,559 i would say of order a quarter of our 1243 00:51:28,230 --> 00:51:26,079 stars don't look real promising for 1244 00:51:29,990 --> 00:51:28,240 having anything that we can detect uh 1245 00:51:32,150 --> 00:51:30,000 but it'll be fun to do this for another 1246 00:51:33,990 --> 00:51:32,160 10 years and more properly answer your 1247 00:51:39,510 --> 00:51:34,000 question 1248 00:51:44,549 --> 00:51:41,990 stu magnuson with uh space news 1249 00:51:46,630 --> 00:51:44,559 uh i just want to clarify some of you 1250 00:51:49,510 --> 00:51:46,640 kind of answered two questions ago but 1251 00:51:52,470 --> 00:51:49,520 are the wobbles uh for our eccentric 1252 00:51:54,630 --> 00:51:52,480 orbits easier to spot than the circular 1253 00:51:57,109 --> 00:51:54,640 orbits and how many have how many 1254 00:52:01,349 --> 00:51:57,119 circular orbits have you found so far if 1255 00:52:03,589 --> 00:52:02,230 the 1256 00:52:05,190 --> 00:52:03,599 um 1257 00:52:07,030 --> 00:52:05,200 the best way for me to answer the 1258 00:52:09,190 --> 00:52:07,040 question is this it's it's a little bit 1259 00:52:10,950 --> 00:52:09,200 of a complicated question 1260 00:52:13,270 --> 00:52:10,960 i would say the following 1261 00:52:15,510 --> 00:52:13,280 almost all of the planets 1262 00:52:17,910 --> 00:52:15,520 that have these elongated eccentric 1263 00:52:19,829 --> 00:52:17,920 orbits we would have detected them just 1264 00:52:22,230 --> 00:52:19,839 as easily if they had been in circular 1265 00:52:25,030 --> 00:52:22,240 orbits and and the way i'm answering it 1266 00:52:27,430 --> 00:52:25,040 is i think the important way because 1267 00:52:29,270 --> 00:52:27,440 your question is a good one we are we 1268 00:52:30,870 --> 00:52:29,280 one might well worry 1269 00:52:33,589 --> 00:52:30,880 that we have some 1270 00:52:36,230 --> 00:52:33,599 bias toward detecting the elongated 1271 00:52:38,309 --> 00:52:36,240 eccentric orbits over our ability to 1272 00:52:40,790 --> 00:52:38,319 detect circular ones and that's not the 1273 00:52:43,270 --> 00:52:40,800 case the the orbits that we've detected 1274 00:52:44,950 --> 00:52:43,280 that are elongated eccentric these wacky 1275 00:52:47,109 --> 00:52:44,960 orbits 1276 00:52:48,790 --> 00:52:47,119 if the planet had been 1277 00:52:51,030 --> 00:52:48,800 in a circular orbit we would have found 1278 00:52:54,630 --> 00:52:51,040 it just as well 1279 00:52:58,069 --> 00:52:56,470 so um 1280 00:53:00,390 --> 00:52:58,079 here's the statistic 1281 00:53:01,349 --> 00:53:00,400 for what it's worth 1282 00:53:04,069 --> 00:53:01,359 we 1283 00:53:07,910 --> 00:53:04,079 there are 24 planets known around other 1284 00:53:10,549 --> 00:53:07,920 stars that orbit farther than a tenth of 1285 00:53:13,270 --> 00:53:10,559 an earth-sun distance and every single 1286 00:53:17,270 --> 00:53:13,280 one of them 24 out of 24 1287 00:53:19,589 --> 00:53:17,280 orbits in an elongated eccentric orbit 1288 00:53:21,670 --> 00:53:19,599 the planets that we've found and other 1289 00:53:24,309 --> 00:53:21,680 teams the swiss team has contributed 1290 00:53:27,270 --> 00:53:24,319 several those planets that orbit closer 1291 00:53:29,910 --> 00:53:27,280 than one-tenth of an earth-sun distance 1292 00:53:32,230 --> 00:53:29,920 all of them are in circular orbits 1293 00:53:34,309 --> 00:53:32,240 and some people speculate that that may 1294 00:53:36,309 --> 00:53:34,319 be these circular orbits may have 1295 00:53:39,190 --> 00:53:36,319 resulted from 1296 00:53:41,829 --> 00:53:39,200 tides raised on the star and indeed 1297 00:53:45,190 --> 00:53:41,839 tides raised on the planet due to the 1298 00:53:47,030 --> 00:53:45,200 star which tend to circularize the orbit 1299 00:53:47,829 --> 00:53:47,040 even if it were not circular to begin 1300 00:53:52,390 --> 00:53:47,839 with 1301 00:53:55,270 --> 00:53:52,400 so the interesting statistic is the uh 1302 00:53:56,790 --> 00:53:55,280 24 out of 24 planets beyond a tenth of 1303 00:53:59,589 --> 00:53:56,800 an earth sun distance 1304 00:54:00,870 --> 00:53:59,599 that are in these elongated orbits 1305 00:54:01,990 --> 00:54:00,880 there are several of those though that i 1306 00:54:02,870 --> 00:54:02,000 think are 1307 00:54:04,630 --> 00:54:02,880 are 1308 00:54:06,870 --> 00:54:04,640 the planet orbits far enough away from 1309 00:54:09,030 --> 00:54:06,880 its star that the star probably hasn't 1310 00:54:10,150 --> 00:54:09,040 had enough time to circularize its orbit 1311 00:54:11,910 --> 00:54:10,160 so even though they're on circular 1312 00:54:13,750 --> 00:54:11,920 orbits those circular orbits are 1313 00:54:15,510 --> 00:54:13,760 probably primordial but as you go 1314 00:54:16,950 --> 00:54:15,520 farther away as jeff pointed out they're 1315 00:54:18,790 --> 00:54:16,960 essentially all eccentric so there's 1316 00:54:20,790 --> 00:54:18,800 some real puzzles there theoretically to 1317 00:54:22,710 --> 00:54:20,800 explain 1318 00:54:24,390 --> 00:54:22,720 okay we'll try to take them in order 1319 00:54:26,470 --> 00:54:24,400 randy and then paul 1320 00:54:28,309 --> 00:54:26,480 how do you explain the detection gap 1321 00:54:30,230 --> 00:54:28,319 between the brown dwarfs and the planets 1322 00:54:32,230 --> 00:54:30,240 that have been found and why hasn't 1323 00:54:34,069 --> 00:54:32,240 anything been found in the gap 1324 00:54:36,870 --> 00:54:34,079 brown dwarf companions the stars are 1325 00:54:38,549 --> 00:54:36,880 rare um at least within the inner three 1326 00:54:39,990 --> 00:54:38,559 times the earth sun distance which is 1327 00:54:41,270 --> 00:54:40,000 what we're probing now three times 1328 00:54:43,030 --> 00:54:41,280 anything within about three earth sun 1329 00:54:44,470 --> 00:54:43,040 distances of its star 1330 00:54:46,230 --> 00:54:44,480 we don't find any brown dwarfs we have 1331 00:54:47,829 --> 00:54:46,240 one thousand stars under survey we had 1332 00:54:49,510 --> 00:54:47,839 three telescopes we're doing a full sky 1333 00:54:51,990 --> 00:54:49,520 survey we're going to extend that to 1334 00:54:53,510 --> 00:54:52,000 2000 stars out out of 500 stars that 1335 00:54:55,030 --> 00:54:53,520 we've carefully examined now over three 1336 00:54:56,870 --> 00:54:55,040 or four years there aren't any we don't 1337 00:54:58,789 --> 00:54:56,880 see a single object so they're rare 1338 00:55:00,309 --> 00:54:58,799 brown dwarfs wild brown dwarfs are very 1339 00:55:02,549 --> 00:55:00,319 common there's probably two brown dwarfs 1340 00:55:04,230 --> 00:55:02,559 in our galaxy for every star uh for 1341 00:55:06,069 --> 00:55:04,240 whatever reason the brown dwarfs do not 1342 00:55:08,069 --> 00:55:06,079 form around stars at least within the 1343 00:55:09,510 --> 00:55:08,079 inner part of the solar system and 1344 00:55:11,109 --> 00:55:09,520 that's up to somebody like alan to 1345 00:55:12,789 --> 00:55:11,119 explain that 1346 00:55:15,109 --> 00:55:12,799 it's just empirical i can comment on 1347 00:55:16,950 --> 00:55:15,119 that also uh we have to remember that 1348 00:55:18,870 --> 00:55:16,960 discovery space diagram we showed is 1349 00:55:21,270 --> 00:55:18,880 actually for companions to solar type 1350 00:55:23,589 --> 00:55:21,280 stars stars like our sun if you did a 1351 00:55:25,829 --> 00:55:23,599 similar plot for companions to brown 1352 00:55:27,430 --> 00:55:25,839 dwarf stars you would find they all have 1353 00:55:29,190 --> 00:55:27,440 a brown dwarf companion at least half of 1354 00:55:31,990 --> 00:55:29,200 them do the point is that if you look at 1355 00:55:33,750 --> 00:55:32,000 binary stars binary stars tend to have 1356 00:55:35,510 --> 00:55:33,760 roughly equal mass companions or at 1357 00:55:37,589 --> 00:55:35,520 least a companion that's perhaps no more 1358 00:55:39,589 --> 00:55:37,599 than a third or a fifth of its mass you 1359 00:55:41,030 --> 00:55:39,599 start getting down to 101 mass ratio 1360 00:55:43,510 --> 00:55:41,040 which is where you would be for a brown 1361 00:55:45,910 --> 00:55:43,520 dwarf companion to a 1362 00:55:47,109 --> 00:55:45,920 sun-like star those things just are very 1363 00:55:49,829 --> 00:55:47,119 rare we know from looking at other 1364 00:55:51,990 --> 00:55:49,839 binary stars so when you form two stars 1365 00:55:54,549 --> 00:55:52,000 they tend to be roughly equal mass 1366 00:55:56,150 --> 00:55:54,559 and so that's why the solar type stars 1367 00:55:58,950 --> 00:55:56,160 essentially have zero brown dwarf 1368 00:56:00,549 --> 00:55:58,960 companions and that but that gives us a 1369 00:56:01,510 --> 00:56:00,559 great handle for making the argument 1370 00:56:02,549 --> 00:56:01,520 that we've really found something 1371 00:56:04,789 --> 00:56:02,559 completely different here that we're 1372 00:56:06,150 --> 00:56:04,799 finding planets not brown dwarf stars if 1373 00:56:08,150 --> 00:56:06,160 it turned out that brown dwarfs could 1374 00:56:09,270 --> 00:56:08,160 co-exist with planets we'd be in a real 1375 00:56:10,950 --> 00:56:09,280 mess right now we wouldn't be able to 1376 00:56:12,870 --> 00:56:10,960 tell the two from each other but luckily 1377 00:56:14,390 --> 00:56:12,880 nature has been kind and it's given us a 1378 00:56:16,789 --> 00:56:14,400 fairly clear signature as to what we're 1379 00:56:20,309 --> 00:56:16,799 seeing so we're really at the birth of a 1380 00:56:22,470 --> 00:56:20,319 field here as we understand the the 1381 00:56:25,190 --> 00:56:22,480 relation between different planets in a 1382 00:56:27,589 --> 00:56:25,200 planetary system and this is just the 1383 00:56:30,150 --> 00:56:27,599 very very beginning of of a field that's 1384 00:56:33,030 --> 00:56:30,160 brand new to us we we simply haven't had 1385 00:56:36,630 --> 00:56:33,040 the ability the power to see these very 1386 00:56:38,630 --> 00:56:36,640 small and dim objects in the universe 1387 00:56:40,150 --> 00:56:38,640 okay that front row we'll we'll try to 1388 00:56:41,829 --> 00:56:40,160 uh press on and get all the questions in 1389 00:56:44,789 --> 00:56:41,839 that we can but we'll have a heart out 1390 00:56:46,870 --> 00:56:44,799 here in about in eight minutes uh marcia 1391 00:56:50,309 --> 00:56:46,880 freeman with 21st century science and 1392 00:56:51,910 --> 00:56:50,319 technology magazine uh you had some 1393 00:56:54,069 --> 00:56:51,920 other announcement last november which 1394 00:56:57,349 --> 00:56:54,079 was very important relates to something 1395 00:56:59,910 --> 00:56:57,359 that dr boss said which was a transit of 1396 00:57:02,870 --> 00:56:59,920 a planet across the face of a star which 1397 00:57:05,910 --> 00:57:02,880 was a second confirming technique of a 1398 00:57:07,670 --> 00:57:05,920 planet an extrasolar planet and i'm 1399 00:57:10,630 --> 00:57:07,680 wondering if you could 1400 00:57:12,390 --> 00:57:10,640 mention what you learn additionally 1401 00:57:15,750 --> 00:57:12,400 about a planet 1402 00:57:17,829 --> 00:57:15,760 from a second confirming technique 1403 00:57:19,670 --> 00:57:17,839 let me just make one comment 1404 00:57:21,270 --> 00:57:19,680 the first and most important thing that 1405 00:57:24,069 --> 00:57:21,280 you learned from that was this is what 1406 00:57:26,390 --> 00:57:24,079 people thought they were 1407 00:57:28,789 --> 00:57:26,400 it was it was not a 1408 00:57:30,630 --> 00:57:28,799 variation in a star it was not some 1409 00:57:32,470 --> 00:57:30,640 completely other thing that we don't 1410 00:57:34,870 --> 00:57:32,480 understand 1411 00:57:37,589 --> 00:57:34,880 yeah i guess i would start by adding as 1412 00:57:39,589 --> 00:57:37,599 alan boss mentioned it's glorious in 1413 00:57:42,950 --> 00:57:39,599 science and it's the hallmark of science 1414 00:57:45,910 --> 00:57:42,960 as a human activity to have an entirely 1415 00:57:47,990 --> 00:57:45,920 independent technique by competitors 1416 00:57:50,309 --> 00:57:48,000 perhaps even 1417 00:57:52,150 --> 00:57:50,319 establish the reality of some physical 1418 00:57:54,789 --> 00:57:52,160 phenomenon which had already been 1419 00:57:57,750 --> 00:57:54,799 suspected by one technique so that's the 1420 00:58:00,069 --> 00:57:57,760 ground base that we like to operate from 1421 00:58:01,990 --> 00:58:00,079 various groups attacking a problem from 1422 00:58:02,870 --> 00:58:02,000 different directions getting the same 1423 00:58:04,870 --> 00:58:02,880 answer 1424 00:58:06,309 --> 00:58:04,880 the one thing we've learned that i think 1425 00:58:09,430 --> 00:58:06,319 is the most exciting about the 1426 00:58:13,349 --> 00:58:09,440 transiting planet is its 1427 00:58:15,910 --> 00:58:13,359 size its diameter we had known the mass 1428 00:58:17,750 --> 00:58:15,920 roughly from our wobble measurements 1429 00:58:20,230 --> 00:58:17,760 and we had known its orbit but we didn't 1430 00:58:22,710 --> 00:58:20,240 know its actual physical dimension 1431 00:58:24,549 --> 00:58:22,720 we now know that these planets are as 1432 00:58:26,789 --> 00:58:24,559 large as our own jupiter 1433 00:58:29,829 --> 00:58:26,799 approximately and that tells us that 1434 00:58:31,349 --> 00:58:29,839 they are made of gas rather than solid 1435 00:58:33,430 --> 00:58:31,359 of course an object that's solid would 1436 00:58:35,270 --> 00:58:33,440 be more compressed and smaller 1437 00:58:37,670 --> 00:58:35,280 and the transiting planet by virtue of 1438 00:58:40,069 --> 00:58:37,680 the fact that the star dims as the 1439 00:58:42,470 --> 00:58:40,079 planet crosses in front allows us to 1440 00:58:44,870 --> 00:58:42,480 measure the size of the planet and hence 1441 00:58:47,109 --> 00:58:44,880 determine that it's large and hence 1442 00:58:48,789 --> 00:58:47,119 gaseous 1443 00:58:53,510 --> 00:58:48,799 leonard 1444 00:58:56,309 --> 00:58:53,520 um maybe jump into the future a bit 1445 00:58:59,750 --> 00:58:56,319 several decades listening to dan golden 1446 00:59:01,270 --> 00:58:59,760 he's challenged you kind of folks to uh 1447 00:59:03,190 --> 00:59:01,280 to image uh 1448 00:59:04,710 --> 00:59:03,200 continents or oceans maybe a couple 1449 00:59:07,190 --> 00:59:04,720 weeks ago you might have said bald spots 1450 00:59:09,589 --> 00:59:07,200 on aliens i don't know what but it's 1451 00:59:12,789 --> 00:59:09,599 certainly a challenge what do you think 1452 00:59:14,710 --> 00:59:12,799 uh the prospect is in your own mind the 1453 00:59:17,109 --> 00:59:14,720 march of technology and again these 1454 00:59:18,549 --> 00:59:17,119 space-based capabilities of doing that 1455 00:59:21,270 --> 00:59:18,559 heidi do you want to give that a yeah 1456 00:59:24,470 --> 00:59:21,280 well ann already gave a really nice 1457 00:59:26,069 --> 00:59:24,480 summary of what nasa's plans are and how 1458 00:59:28,470 --> 00:59:26,079 they plan to proceed 1459 00:59:30,870 --> 00:59:28,480 and i think that most of us 1460 00:59:32,789 --> 00:59:30,880 recognize that that's a great plan we 1461 00:59:35,510 --> 00:59:32,799 also recognize that it's a tough thing 1462 00:59:37,270 --> 00:59:35,520 to do i think that we all understand 1463 00:59:40,150 --> 00:59:37,280 that the interferometry method is the 1464 00:59:42,870 --> 00:59:40,160 way we have to go this is where you take 1465 00:59:44,789 --> 00:59:42,880 multiple telescopes and you can separate 1466 00:59:46,390 --> 00:59:44,799 them by great distances and yet you can 1467 00:59:48,230 --> 00:59:46,400 combine the signal 1468 00:59:50,950 --> 00:59:48,240 to give you a telescope that has the 1469 00:59:52,950 --> 00:59:50,960 effective area of this the difference 1470 00:59:54,549 --> 00:59:52,960 between the two that that's really what 1471 00:59:57,670 --> 00:59:54,559 we're going to need 1472 00:59:59,829 --> 00:59:57,680 to really be able to you know see the 1473 01:00:02,470 --> 00:59:59,839 continents on another planet i think 1474 01:00:04,549 --> 01:00:02,480 another thing that most of us believe is 1475 01:00:07,510 --> 01:00:04,559 feasible in the next 1476 01:00:09,030 --> 01:00:07,520 well why don't we say in our lifetimes 1477 01:00:12,630 --> 01:00:09,040 is that that's a that's probably the 1478 01:00:15,030 --> 01:00:12,640 right time skill here um is to use these 1479 01:00:18,549 --> 01:00:15,040 very large telescopes or arrays of 1480 01:00:21,030 --> 01:00:18,559 telescopes to measure the the chemical 1481 01:00:23,270 --> 01:00:21,040 signatures of what is on these planets 1482 01:00:25,510 --> 01:00:23,280 to to use spectroscopy 1483 01:00:29,349 --> 01:00:25,520 to really detect whether or not there's 1484 01:00:31,270 --> 01:00:29,359 ozone or methane or some other kind of 1485 01:00:33,910 --> 01:00:31,280 signature that is there 1486 01:00:36,150 --> 01:00:33,920 i think most of us think that's probably 1487 01:00:39,109 --> 01:00:36,160 more likely than taking 1488 01:00:40,630 --> 01:00:39,119 pictures of these planets 1489 01:00:42,390 --> 01:00:40,640 and it's going to give us more 1490 01:00:45,750 --> 01:00:42,400 quantitative information 1491 01:00:47,510 --> 01:00:45,760 about planets around other stars 1492 01:00:49,670 --> 01:00:47,520 but after we get a spectrum of a planet 1493 01:00:51,030 --> 01:00:49,680 and find out that it has ozone it's 1494 01:00:53,030 --> 01:00:51,040 going to be i think inevitable that 1495 01:00:54,789 --> 01:00:53,040 we're going to want to eventually take 1496 01:00:57,670 --> 01:00:54,799 the big leap and build a terrestrial 1497 01:00:59,589 --> 01:00:57,680 planet imager this may be 30 40 years in 1498 01:01:00,710 --> 01:00:59,599 the future but it's something that's 1499 01:01:02,390 --> 01:01:00,720 going to be an imperative for our 1500 01:01:03,349 --> 01:01:02,400 civilization it'll be a lot easier to do 1501 01:01:05,190 --> 01:01:03,359 that than it will be to build a 1502 01:01:06,870 --> 01:01:05,200 spacecraft to go there which we'll talk 1503 01:01:07,829 --> 01:01:06,880 about even farther in the future so it's 1504 01:01:10,069 --> 01:01:07,839 one of these 1505 01:01:11,270 --> 01:01:10,079 another giant steps we'll be taking and 1506 01:01:12,710 --> 01:01:11,280 if we know that there are earths out 1507 01:01:14,390 --> 01:01:12,720 there nearby we're going to want to take 1508 01:01:15,589 --> 01:01:14,400 a picture of them and we'll figure out a 1509 01:01:16,630 --> 01:01:15,599 way to do it 1510 01:01:18,950 --> 01:01:16,640 and just to give you a little 1511 01:01:20,789 --> 01:01:18,960 perspective looking backwards 15 years 1512 01:01:23,030 --> 01:01:20,799 when these guys were starting on this 15 1513 01:01:24,390 --> 01:01:23,040 years ago people laughed at them for 1514 01:01:26,150 --> 01:01:24,400 doing this 1515 01:01:27,910 --> 01:01:26,160 jeff and i have a friend in astronomy 1516 01:01:30,309 --> 01:01:27,920 who's got a really great test for how to 1517 01:01:31,829 --> 01:01:30,319 tell whether a project is worth doing 1518 01:01:33,430 --> 01:01:31,839 and that is you you go out to dinner 1519 01:01:35,510 --> 01:01:33,440 with them and you describe the science 1520 01:01:37,670 --> 01:01:35,520 and if they all burst out laughing then 1521 01:01:40,630 --> 01:01:37,680 that's a great thing to do so you know 1522 01:01:42,069 --> 01:01:40,640 sometimes it takes very new ideas and 1523 01:01:44,470 --> 01:01:42,079 these guys are working on something that 1524 01:01:47,349 --> 01:01:44,480 15 years ago was a joke 1525 01:01:49,349 --> 01:01:47,359 no maybe not quite a joke but but most 1526 01:01:52,630 --> 01:01:49,359 astronomers were not on the wagon that 1527 01:01:54,870 --> 01:01:52,640 this is a very cool stuff and you know 1528 01:01:56,789 --> 01:01:54,880 when we sit now and look into the future 1529 01:01:59,270 --> 01:01:56,799 15 or 20 years you've really got to push 1530 01:02:01,589 --> 01:01:59,280 your ideas 1531 01:02:04,150 --> 01:02:01,599 we have time for about maybe one or two 1532 01:02:05,670 --> 01:02:04,160 more go ahead 1533 01:02:07,589 --> 01:02:05,680 i just wanted to clarify you i think 1534 01:02:09,829 --> 01:02:07,599 jeff had said that about one-fourth of 1535 01:02:12,870 --> 01:02:09,839 the stars that you look at are not good 1536 01:02:14,390 --> 01:02:12,880 candidates for planets and out of wha 1537 01:02:19,190 --> 01:02:14,400 what kind of a population is that that 1538 01:02:22,710 --> 01:02:20,950 uh let's see i'm not quite sure what 1539 01:02:25,190 --> 01:02:22,720 you're referring to 1540 01:02:27,190 --> 01:02:25,200 with regard to one quarter of the 1541 01:02:28,710 --> 01:02:27,200 stars or planets not being that was 1542 01:02:30,470 --> 01:02:28,720 paul's statement uh 1543 01:02:32,309 --> 01:02:30,480 but you know where the one quarter came 1544 01:02:33,349 --> 01:02:32,319 from just about one quarter of our stars 1545 01:02:35,190 --> 01:02:33,359 are flat they're not showing any 1546 01:02:36,549 --> 01:02:35,200 variation ah i see 1547 01:02:38,309 --> 01:02:36,559 how many stars have you looked at is 1548 01:02:41,349 --> 01:02:38,319 what he wants to know okay 1549 01:02:43,349 --> 01:02:41,359 200 500 we have right now about 1 100 1550 01:02:44,870 --> 01:02:43,359 stars in our sample about 500 stars 1551 01:02:46,390 --> 01:02:44,880 we've looked at over a long enough 1552 01:02:47,430 --> 01:02:46,400 period of time that we can say at least 1553 01:02:49,990 --> 01:02:47,440 over three or four years we're not 1554 01:02:52,470 --> 01:02:50,000 seeing variations our goal is to ramp up 1555 01:02:55,270 --> 01:02:52,480 the survey to about 2 000 stars which 1556 01:02:57,349 --> 01:02:55,280 will allow us to do every star within 1557 01:02:58,710 --> 01:02:57,359 about 150 light years and we hope to 1558 01:03:00,390 --> 01:02:58,720 ramp up within the next two or three 1559 01:03:03,349 --> 01:03:00,400 years and get every nearby star under 1560 01:03:05,270 --> 01:03:03,359 survey 1561 01:03:07,029 --> 01:03:05,280 okay unfortunately we have run out of 1562 01:03:09,029 --> 01:03:07,039 time we're losing the satellite and 1563 01:03:10,230 --> 01:03:09,039 we're going to have to 1564 01:03:11,910 --> 01:03:10,240 close down 1565 01:03:14,549 --> 01:03:11,920 you'll be available for 1566 01:03:16,549 --> 01:03:14,559 uh questions here in nasa headquarters 1567 01:03:17,750 --> 01:03:16,559 uh thank you very much for joining us 1568 01:03:18,870 --> 01:03:17,760 today 1569 01:03:20,470 --> 01:03:18,880 we 1570 01:03:22,870 --> 01:03:20,480 have a slate coming up here showing you 1571 01:03:25,109 --> 01:03:22,880 the website where you can get the images 1572 01:03:26,870 --> 01:03:25,119 uh and the other information from today 1573 01:03:29,430 --> 01:03:26,880 also information about the missions that 1574 01:03:32,710 --> 01:03:29,440 were discussed you can find at 1575 01:03:35,109 --> 01:03:32,720 the nasa website space science.nasa.gov